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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 28, 2014 22:15:58 GMT -5
(There are four new posts on Page 54 That I posted before this)~~~~~~~~~~******Helen, Look at this time line I took off John's Brothers Facebook Page--Do you see what I see? Geo Some of the information is surprising,but I think you would have to give me more of a clue...  Geo, I will go over it when I have time and I will get back to you. Moved to Atlanta, GA, 1971 Moved to Gastonia, NC June 25, 1972 Moved to Detroit with John Hastings - May 25, 1973 Hitch Hiked 10,000 miles in 3 months on $50 in food stamps August 10, 1974 to November 1974 Visited The Oregon Coast · Seattle, Washington · Grand Coulee Dam · Butte, Montana · Yellowstone National Park · Rocky Mountain National Park · Salt Lake City, Utah · Crater Lake National Park · Oregon Coast · Big Sur, California · San Fransisco, CA · Monterey, California · Los Angeles, California · San Diego, California · The University of Arizona · El Paso, Texas · New Orleans, Louisiana · Pensacola Beach, Florida · Panama City Beach, Florida · Tampa, Florida · Key West, Florida · Miami Beach, Florida · St. Augustine, Florida · Myrtle Beach, South Carolina Moved to Eugene, Oregon - June 10, 1974 with Greg Hills Move to Myrtle Beach, SC , November 15, 1974 Hitchhiked to Mardi Gras at Pensacola Beach, FL Feb 15, 1975 with Greg Hills and Paul Gandhi Moved to Birmingham - March 1975 Hitched Hiked to Winston-Salem, NC April 25, 1975 Moved to South Lyon - May 25, 1975 Road trip to Portland, Oregon, May 1977 (just after Tim King's death) Moved to Miami Beach, FL - October 14, 1978 ( just after McKinney was killed? and one more before Busch's death?) Moved to Denver, CO - November 5, 1979 Moved to Royal Oak Township, Ferndale, March 26, 1981 Moved to Berkley, July 1, 1982 First met my darling wife Nancy Xxxxxxx at the Alibi Inn, where Greg and Chris were playing.- January 25, 1985 Moved to Whitefish, Montana From Berkley, Michigan — June 14, 1986 with Xxxxxx xxxxxx, Nancy Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxxxx and Xxxxxxxxx Xxxxxxx He is in the Detroit area during all four murders but not in Royal Oak. Then again, how much of this is accurate or truthful? |
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 28, 2014 22:47:04 GMT -5
Helen I don't think you need to prostitute yourself with John's story.
It is what it is and really doesn't require public judgement. The sad thing is that it does require LE participation and that just hasn't happened because they have so much to lose. Lt.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 30, 2014 1:26:39 GMT -5
It will never end!!! Imagine my surprise when I went to post a Michigan News story and found out they were tracking my readers,you would have had to sign in to read the story-and then of course they would have had my readers location and IP and name!!!--Well the joke is on them-I don't even track my readers-and the reason I don't is because if I had that software,then anyone could get those results-and they are no ones business,not even mine--I could care less who reads my site -I am just Thankful that I have so many readers-I do get a daily and monthly total,but I get none of your Internet Information...and that is the way it will stay!!! So I will not be running any more of their news story's -EVER!!!!! It is not my fault that I have more readers than a newspaper in Michigan...I'm sure I have more readers than most of them...yet,no one else has ever pulled a Stunt like that...and I am pretty PO about it!!!
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 30, 2014 1:49:15 GMT -5
I knew you would find that to be funny Jack,The Security Log on this site is a record of all actions that affect forum content or settings. It is this way in order to protect my site readers. I am sure that the matter has been taken care of-and they didn't get any information of any kind,as the site reader would have had to click on the News story and then sign up to read it-and I had that post deleted in less then a minute...not one person was even able to sign on.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 30, 2014 17:14:10 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 30, 2014 17:35:15 GMT -5
Sorry about that-It flipped out before I was finish--I do not own HelenDagner.com any more and haven't for many years,the man who does own it,has the right to sell advertising on it,he set up my .com for me and for years before that I posted on his Indian sites for years and years and years-all for free,and he went to battle for me many times with Kdogg and his old yahoo group members--this is the guy named Mark that Kdogg was going to ruin his life-that post is back a few pages-Kevin didn't realize what an Important man Mark was,but anyway that is history,and so is the fact that Marks father was murdered by a serial killer. I think he made a wise financial decision by doing the advertising-I had all ready been on the Internet for 10 years under HelenDagner.com,I had a huge Michigan following and I still have a site up that is key to go back to the .com--of course you can not read any story's there,but from and advertising point of view,your going to get a lot of visitors. Jack, I think you missed the point here-I am not upset about advertising--but I just didn't like some organization trying to high jack info on my Occk readers--I know every one does it-they are on the Internet to make money--But I just do not want them using the memory of the Occk victims as a money source,If I wanted to go along with the Internet trend on the Occk Headquarter Site--Then I would have ad's connected to all our videos on the site and on YouTube ...you notice I have never put a price tag on them...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 31, 2014 1:03:27 GMT -5
Helen,
1) I respectfully disagree with your comment and Mike Stebbins belief that the drawing on Busch’s bedroom wall is not Mark. I can understand that Mike just doesn’t want to believe it. However, I do believe that it is indeed him and that the drawing was done by a very good artist; someone with training (neighbor John Hastings?). This was planted in Busch’s room during the so-called suicide(murder), IMO as were some other items.
2) Also, no one seems to bring up the Volkswagen Rabbit owner’s manual sitting so much in plain sight on Busch’s desk (too much in plain sight). Now, why on earth would the son of an extremely wealthy GM executive have a VW owner’s manual on his desk? His dad could get him ANY GM car he wanted. Two possibilities cross my mind.
a. It was planted to set up Busch as a “patsy” for the OCCK murders. As if, he was going to go out and buy a new car so he wouldn’t be so conspicuous with his Gremlin looking Vega and be arrested. That is what the murderer of Busch wanted the police to think.
b. What was Busch’s new job going to be starting on 11/20/78? Does anyone know? Could he be studying to be a car mechanic? Perhaps where Arch Sloan worked? Just a thought. Hopefully, LE had enough brains to ask the parents, the maid or brother Charles Busch. If not, it’s not too late to ask the maid or Charles what Christopher’s new job was going to be and where.Xxxxx xxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 31, 2014 1:13:39 GMT -5
Helen, Makes more sense to me since there are other items which look planted to me in the photos (e.g. ropes). Funny, Busch was such a good marksman that he shot himself between the eyes and was able to lay the gun nicely by his side, afterwards….with an incredible amount of alcohol in his system. This does not make any sense and was no suicide. We only know for sure it wasn’t John McKinney who killed Busch as he was already dead. The common link to me between Busch’s death (murder) and McKinney’s murder is “art”. The common link between Anthony Mitchell (the boy who supposedly “fell” off the water tower in Sept. of 1966) and Christopher Busch is that they were both the sons of extremely wealthy GM executives (was somebody jealous of wealth? Hmm). Isn’t it ironic that the Hastings family lived between the water tower and the Busch residence? It’s only about ½ mile “as the crow flies”. Plus, John Hastings having either worked at the McKinney art studio or having been a student there had an incredible amount of misfortune surrounding him in Birmingham (not exactly the murder capital of the world). What are the odds someone would be so close to so many deaths? Were there multiple murderers in the area? One for Busch? One for McKinney? One for the four OCCK children? Or was it just one person? Let’s put it this way: Yes, I know that the water tower/Hastings residence/Busch residence is now considered Bloomfield Hills but back then, it was part of Birmingham. From 1997 to 2011 there was ONLY one murder in Birmingham. Fifteen years, one murder. Xxxx www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Birmingham-Michigan.html This recent data tells me a couple of things. There are not a lot of killers, if any, in the area. The local police are not used to murders and were/are inexperienced when it comes to investigations, following up on leads, etc. I’d be interested in knowing if there were any other murders in the Birmingham area between the mid 60’s and late 70’s? I know Sheila Schrock was murdered and they found the killer for that crime. |
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 31, 2014 1:20:45 GMT -5
Helen,Do you have the number for Stebbins law suit? Dan Note: Well here is one of them, Case Number 2008-093591-NO STEBBINS MARK vs. LAMBORGINE THEODORE
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 31, 2014 1:25:51 GMT -5
NOTE: You may want to hold off on any more questions about Mark,as his Death anniversary is coming up soon- (Mark Stebbins, age 12, last seen in Ferndale on February 15, 1976. His body was found in Southfield on February 19, 1976) and as always we will be covering just about everything about his case.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 1, 2014 5:02:05 GMT -5
You Know You Are Doing Something Right… When articles such as this are presented. I had to post it- I found it so funny. I must be getting under the False Memory Pedophile Protection Squad’s skin- they gave me a WHOLE ARTICLE dedicated to me… www.dysgenics.com/2013/12/22/david-shurters-epic-fail/Of course an anon wrote this- but whatever- it is worth sharing- it is such a pathetic character assassination. David Shurter’s |
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Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 1, 2014 6:36:26 GMT -5
Helen,would you post this for me? Get out of the habit of referring to "hits."
One of the terms frequently thrown around regarding website traffic is "hits." What most people mean by "hits" is the number of visits the site gets. But technically, the word "hits" actually refers to the total number of files that are requested from the server. Therefore the number of hits to a site is always going to be significantly higher than the actual number of visits to the site. This is because a typical visit to a website will include "hits" on a number of pages. Not only is each page counted as a hit, but all the graphics on every page requested also register as uniquely requested files, a.k.a. "hits." Given the number of graphics on a typical webpage (including the navigation bar, highlight states of graphic menus and so forth), the difference between hits and visits is substantial. It would not be uncommon for a traffic report to show ten or even twenty times as many hits as actual visits.
Look at sessions, page views and average length of visit.
When analyzing your traffic report you can, for the most part, ignore hits and bytes (bytes being the total amount of data sent out from your site). Instead, it's much more helpful to review the trends in sessions, pageviews, and length of stay. Urchin provides both totals and averages for these traffic stats.
Tracking your overall website sessions is the best and most accurate way to determine your site's performance. A session is a unique visit by a singe individual. One session is recorded for each unique site visit whether the visitor looks at one page or every page on the site.
Because every site is different, comparing your site's performance to another's is not very useful. Some sites are designed to attract daily readers. Some are simply used to support other marketing materials. Therefore, comparing overall traffic volume is not a useful effort. Rather than worrying about how many sessions your site receives compared to other sites, it's better to understand how your site adjustments and marketing efforts impact your site's overall traffic patterns. Therefore, tracking session data from month to month is the most fundamental aspect of analyzing your website traffic reports. Hopefully, you will see growth in your overall session traffic over time.(Please withhold my name)LOL Note: Trouble Maker!
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Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 1, 2014 7:16:19 GMT -5
It is just a little after 7 am,and some of you readers want to talk about site Stats--boy you have a very dull life-Look-there is no point in my running your feedback on site Bots, or why you get one or two hits from other country' s the internet is full of information about it all...and really who cares? I learned a long time ago-you can lead a horse to water , but you can not make them drink!...so feedback on the operation of sites -Is going to be a done issue!...."To argue with one that does not see, is like banging a rock with a blade of grass. To win changes nothing, for understanding is the only method of true change"
Tenyears
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Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 2, 2014 2:16:33 GMT -5
Dear Xxxxx, So far, I haven't read any where you can weaken
Helen's theory, her story or the fact
that all the cops involved took her seriously and her theory seriously. In
other words, Argue the merits of the cases and the evidence and try to put forth
the best case for your theory and if possible, uncover any new evidence.
Personal attacks are unhelpful, counterproductive and beneath the level of civil
discourse among adults. It also degrades and cheapens the entire memory of the
children. So, please stick to the
case and the evidence. Rick
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Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 3, 2014 7:11:38 GMT -5
A Response to Doug Mesner/Luciean Greaves Article “David Shurter’s Epic Fail”
Although my initial reaction to this piece was to laugh it off as a failed attempt to attack me, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I should answer some of the accusations and give my side of the situation. The fact that I have to respond to someone who has done his best to infiltrate the survivor community and attack it at will- while trying to build membership to his “Satanic Temple”, I have found this boy-man to be full of hatred and contradictions. Two things are for certain though- he loves media attention and he utterly hates me and my crusade.
First off- the article that he wrote about me is a biased piece of BS. Speaking about things he has no clue about- it was nothing more than an attack in order to try and sway people to think that I am full of it. The only thing that was real was the first quote, which I wrote during an incredibly difficult divorce from my partner of 20 years. Doing his best to discredit and defame me- the rest of the article is just bogus opinions, and much of the information I assume came from my father’s wife and her daughter and my oldest sister’s children, whom I haven’t spoken too in years and a group that has never been close to me. In fact I haven’t seen Christina, my stepmother’s daughter- in 20 years. The last time was at a gym- where she stood in front of me and I didn’t even recognize her, except for the time she appeared in court. This group of people have followed me and basically made my life such a hell that I had to leave the midwest to escape them from stalking my every move.
You can tell by the language of the piece that Doug has nothing but complete disdain for me, if not pure hatred. I stand by my work in Rabbit Hole: A Satanic Ritual Abuse Survivor’s Story- a book he admits he has never read, and my work on my blog- DavidShurter.com. This boy-man has a tendency to attack ALL survivors, and I am just one in the fold of his crusade. Felicity Lee is another of his victims, as he has done any and every underhanded thing to attack us- complete with calling Felicity’s utility companies and having them shut off her services. Never taking responsibility for his actions- he is further compelled by the Huffington Post- who seem to relish in publishing every nasty thing the boy-man does, including tea bagging a grave stone.
My father and his family kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed many children. He did not eat them. This suggestion is so far off base that it makes one’s head spin. From what I have discovered in my experiences with other survivors- being raised to believe that I was the anti-christ was not just my experience as several other survivors had the same type of training- which makes me think that it was just another trick during the MKUltra experience. (There IS NO MONARCH PROJECT- which goes to show how uneducated Mesner/Lucian Greaves is about the whole well known government project). However- he wasn’t involved with my family- never knew my father- and has never met me. But apparently he has convinced himself that he knows everything there is to know about me and what I am doing- although he never once has read my book. (Hasn’t stopped his zealot followers from leaving nasty one star reviews on it however). Anything he can do to attack he does- and this article is just yet another example of the depths the boy-man will sink too.
Next – I have no idea where he comes off with me ranting about lunar cycles and Satanism- and in fact since he is head of a satanic cult he would know more about them than I. I actually have no idea what this is about- and is yet another one of his lies that he attributes to me. I am not an expert on ANY OF THIS- but rather am just a guy who has tried to get my past- and my family, investigated. I have detailed many of findings and experiences for people both in my book and on my blog- and I challenge him to show where I spoke about any of this in either one, because I never have. However- as has been his MO, he lies, then attributes those lies to other people in hopes that it will hold and stand water. I personally could not care less. He claims that I am ranting incoherently- but the only thing coherent with this article is that he has unbridled hatred for me and all survivors.
As far as Noreen Gosch and Franklin Files, I have just published an article entitled “Child Trafficking and Mind Control in the Heartland- My Cost of Child Advocacy” in the winter issue of Paranoia magazine- which can also be found in the top pages on my blog- where I detail my whole experience with these people. I did not “weasel” my way into anything- and in fact it was they who came to me- and not the other way around. My video “A Walking Tour through Pedophile Omaha” was a video in which I detail the establishments that were involved with the Omaha hoop la in the 80′s- and the fact that Doug shows an undying ignorance to what happened there is just another example of how far off this article is.
As far as the SMART conference, I attended the conference one year and spoke at it the following two years, and it wasn’t until Brick and I had severe issues with the North American Truth and Reconciliation Coalition that I told Neil to go “screw himself”. I do not like nor do I trust Brick- and I have no interest in attending his conferences due to the fact that they are simply survivors telling their horror stories of their past. The decision to ask me not to attend the fourth year had more to do with Brick giving support to Nick Bryant- (a man that Mesner/Greaves doesn’t even mention in the article), who stands in direct opposition to me in detailing what REALLY happened in Omaha. Brick, even now, is working against me and the conference that I am involved with in Seattle- as he is afraid that money might not flow into his pockets as it has so voraciously in the past. But that is beside the point. My issues with Brick are just that- MY ISSUES. And the fact that Brick supposedly went after the boy-man Mesner/Greaves with a cease and desist claim seems to have skipped his mind while writing his hate piece.
With regards to Kara and Free Range Humans, I threw her out of my house after I discovered that, posing as my friend- she was secretly recording everything that was going on in my house. This was DETAILED on my blog- and yet Mesner/Greaves failed to mention this and, like the rest of the article- made it seem like it is something that it is not. Again- my issues with Kara are MY ISSUES, and never have I shared anything with Mesner/Greaves- so the fact that he seems like he is in the know is ridiculous.
As far as my issues with homosexuality- I have none with it itself- however I do have severe issues with the promiscuous lifestyle that it promotes. I did accuse Mesner/Greaves of being a homosexual- as his website detailed many pictures of him naked with his friend Shane- and according to Huffington Post- he threw a homosexual satanic “spell” on the Westboro ministers loved one- making her “gay in the afterlife”. This boy-man does anything for attention- and personally- I don’t care WHO HE HAS SEX WITH- just as long as he keeps his disgusting ways to himself.
Now calling the False Memory Foundation followers the “pedophile protection squad”, it is their compulsion to attack survivors and extoll the virtues and innocence of the accused- and so I am just calling it like I see it. I found it amusing that his proof that Mark Anderson and Walt Carleson were guilty was by using articles from the Omaha World Herald, when most in Omaha knows that Harold Anderson- the owner of the newpaper- was heavily involved with the criminal activity at the time. He is using a pedophile’s propaganda to try and discredit me- and it just is another example to why I call him the head of the pedophile protection squad. Again- he knows NOTHING about Omaha, my childhood, nor what happened back then- and yet his hate rant suggests that he knows all there is to know about it. Perhaps he should stick to exposing himself in public for the national media.
I talk about Mark and Walt because, in my estimation- they were set up. Were they pedophiles? I don’t know. But I do know that the three boys in question were hustlers who sold themselves on the streets- and the fact that their families tried to extort money out of Mark and Walt before going to court shows me that this group of people had severe issues- and were not the victims that they were portrayed as in the Omaha World Herald. But then- I was there and knew the people involved- whereas the boy-man Mesner/Greaves just has uneducated opinions about the whole thing.
Mesner distorts the facts- ALWAYS. He has a history of being deceptive, aggressive, and hateful towards survivors and this article is just another example of that. I will not address his claims any more than I have too- but I felt that I needed to respond to these accusations since the Huffington Post was so willing to allow this article to be published in their comment section of one of their online articles. I do not like this boy-man, I do not like satanism, and I don’t like the false memory foundation pedophile protection squad. They have done their best to attack me and others- who are mentioned in the article- unabashedly, and I think that their hate and despicable behavior stands for itself. Mesner/Greaves is capable of anything and everything- and this article- which he both wrote and THEN commented on- is yet another example of how far off base this boy-man is from reality. All in all- it is sad, and I almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost. Not quite- but almost. David Shurter
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Geo, I will go over it when I have time and I will get back to you.