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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 19, 2014 1:57:10 GMT -5
occkfilm.com/ anyone know what happen here?? No word since Oct. 2012??? Hi Helen. Your question in the OCCK feedback regarding this post: occkfilm.com/ anyone know what happen here?? No word since Oct. 2012??? I emailed Jim Killean last year and he replied back saying their film project had run out of funding. As far as J. Reuben Appleman's book, he emailed me 18 months ago stating that the manuscript was being reviewed. Anything else going on? Greg Does anyone know if this guy ever did anything on this project -other than advertise for funding???
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 19, 2014 23:07:03 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 20, 2014 0:12:58 GMT -5
I have received many emails since Cathy's recent post-I have not read them all,but I will,I have decided not to answer them in Feedback. However I will start a new thread title( Oakland County Child Murders -101) I see this far your interest is in what Mr. King stated in the letter Cathy posted from him "Two principal Investigators concluded that Busch was involved and there was enough circumstantial evidence to try Busch if he was alive today"--This is not true-If Busch had been alive when this "Witch Hunt" started-everything you have heard about his involvement would have been proven not to be true- ...and since all the Press News-It all has been proven to be wrong!~ Do not take this as an Insult to the King Family as there were people in Law Enforcement who fed them a bunch of BS,and when they received the FOIA Documents,there minds had all ready been convinced that Busch did this--However they were warned and wouldn't listen,they just assumed that the two detectives had there best Interest at heart...it is very sad. Yet some people wonder how two attorneys in the family could not find these error's --They are not Criminal Attorneys --reading these documents --is a lot different then reading general documents that have to do with Land and property details ect. Now, I know this makes me look like the bad guy...and so be it--but this has gone on long enough! I have said many times,the King family certainly can believe what ever they want about these cases,However there are three other family's--That really do not know what to believe and they deserve to have the truth presented to them and then form their own opinions...so with that said-I will start the new thread tomorrow...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 6:36:16 GMT -5
Helen,I saw this in a news story by Marney Rich Keenan where she said "In 2008, the Kings notified law enforcement of a tip that offered the biggest lead in the case's history. That tip led police to investigate Christopher Busch, a known pedophile living in Birmingham at the time of the killings. Busch, a 26-year-old son of a prominent GM executive, had been convicted four times of criminal sexual conduct with minors and received probation every time. He killed himself in 1978, a year after the last killing." " tip that offered the biggest lead in the case's history"?? I wonder what her thoughts are now after the OCP came out and stated Busch is not the Occk,that nothing points in his direction? Then the other thing that I question was her stating Busch death was a year after the King boy was murdered,she sure didn't research that well,there are 12 months in a year,Tim was killed in March 1977--Busch' death was in Nov.78. I won't give her the answer to that,she will have to come up with it on her own. Don * Note: I'm sure Marney has moved on, the last I heard, she is now tracking a Russian,who could have a V in his name....
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 7:41:15 GMT -5
Helen, I notice Cathy,posted about the Good Heart Murders and she was very careful not to mention your daughter and all the work she did on organizing those files,so I thought I would give credit where it was due. Jan May 22, 2003 Emmet County detectives revive investigation of 1968 mass murders By KEITH MATHENY Record-Eagle staff writer
PETOSKEY - The investigation into one of the most grisly unsolved mass murders in Michigan history has been revived, thanks to the discovery of some forgotten evidence and the interest of two Emmet County detectives. Emmet Sheriff Peter Wallin said the investigation into the 1968 Robison family murders in northern Emmet County got new life when a box of police documents related to the case was found. The box was in the back of a closet in former sheriff Jeffrey Bodzick's office. It was discovered when the office was cleaned out following Bodzick's death last July 21. Sheriff's Det./Sgt. Bobra Johnston began to pore through the hundreds of documents, as well as other evidence and investigative reports stored in a departmental vault. Det./Sgt. Gwen White-Erickson of the Petoskey post of the Michigan State Police has also assisted. The two detectives met with the heads of DNA, fingerprint and ballistics investigation at the state police crime lab in Grayling Tuesday, going through the details of the case. Those details are horrific. Thirty-five years ago in July, a caretaker called police after smelling the unmistakable stench of rotting corpses coming from inside the family cottage of Richard Robison, near Good Hart north of Harbor Springs. "It was putrid," said Johnston. "The original officers on the scene said they were met with a wall of flies." Inside, police found the decomposing bodies of Robison, 42; his wife, Shirley, 40; sons Richard Jr., 19; and Randall, 12; and daughter Susan, 8. Each had been shot in the head with a .25-caliber handgun. Susan had been bludgeoned with a hammer. Shirley Robison appeared to have been sexually assaulted. Police later determined the murders had occurred 27 days earlier, on June 25, 1968. Johnston said investigators now hope to obtain DNA evidence from three pubic hairs found on the body of Shirley Robison. They've been told by crime lab experts, however, that it's a long shot. "Even if our DNA isn't salvageable, Gwen and I still intend to go to prosecutor Robert Engel and ask him to close (the case), based upon the evidence," Johnston said. That evidence, Johnston said, points to the late Joseph Scolaro, a partner of Richard Robison's in their Detroit-area advertising business. Though there was much circumstantial evidence tying Scolaro to the murders, he was never charged. That evidence included that Scolaro had argued by telephone with Richard Robison the day of the murders; that for 11 hours later that day Scolaro was unaccounted for; and that he owned the types of handgun and rifle implicated in the murders. "The state police made this case on ballistics evidence 34 years ago," Johnston said. Then-Emmet Prosecutor Donald Noggle kept the case open, however. Johnson speculated that he was seeking accomplices. "This scene was so horrific, it was hard to believe one person could have done all this damage," she said. Five years later Scolaro took his own life with a handgun, claiming in his suicide note he was innocent of the murders. The Robison murder case then went cold. Johnston said she believes Scolaro could have acted alone. "The first shots came through the window - a small-caliber rifle, no exit wounds from the bodies," she said. "I think the family was so stunned, the next thing you know, he is inside the house, shooting people. There was only one set of bloody footprints in the cottage." Most compelling, Johnston said, is a summary of the evidence made by a state police investigator, David Myre, found in that long-forgotten box in the sheriff's department closet. In it, Myre synthesizes the hundreds of items of evidence and hundreds of pages of reports into a concise case summary. Johnston credited Al Koski, a retired Royal Oak journalist who covered the murders decades ago and has remained interested in them ever since, for helping keep the cases alive. "He's been up here several times, coming up on his own, just to touch base," she said. "He is just a well of information." Johnston and Wallin said they remain hopeful that the 35-year-old murder mystery can be closed soon. Working on it along with current crimes has proven a challenge, Johnston said. "We are so busy that this case only gets an hour here and an hour there," she said. "We have too many victims who are currently alive and demand our attention." *Note : Thanks Jan,I have all the original photos and files that a man who had been working on a book for 20yrs had...and he died before he finish it,his hope was that if he passed before he completed it -that my daughter who he thought so very much of and who never got tired of listing to him or confirming his information...would continue with his book-However she never found the time in her busy life to get that finish,but she made sure all of the records were in tip top condition at her dept,for anyone who wanted to take this project on...If I wasn't so busy,I would like to run some of the photos...But the Occk cases are keeping me exhausted- I have many news-clips on these cases,with a quick look I found this and thought it was interesting *http://articles.petoskeynews.com/2003-05-21/dna-evidence_24040028
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 7:52:08 GMT -5
Sorry the above Url didn't highlight-but what I found Interesting was--Murder case DNA may not be usable May 21, 2003|By Steve Zucker News-Review Staff Writer
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It wasn't the news they were hoping to hear.
After meeting with representatives from the Michigan State Police Crime Lab in Lansing for more than three hours Tuesday, Emmet County Sheriff's Department Det./Sgt. Bobra Johnston and Michigan State Police Det./Sgt. Gwen White-Erickson learned that the DNA evidence they thought might be the "smoking gun" and bring closure to a 35-year-old mass murder may not be usable.
The women were hoping that 35 years of technological advancement in lab techniques - including most notably DNA testing - could have cemented police theories about who killed the six members of the Robison family at their summer cottage near Good Hart.
They were hoping that DNA tests on three pubic hairs collected at the scene by investigators in 1968 could now place a suspect at the scene.But Johnston said after receiving a primer in the science behind the tests, she and White-Erickson learned that time is working against them.
The lab experts said that because the bodies had decomposed so much in the estimated month between the killings and the grisly discovery, the DNA evidence may not be salvageable. Secondly, although the women have said that investigative work done in 1968 was good, those investigators weren't collecting evidence with today's technology in mind.
The detectives also learned that they have more work ahead of them.
They now must pare down the evidence to single out items that might be of value, which they then will submit to the lab for testing. They hope to have that process completed in about a week. The detectives also hope to talk to a few of the surviving witnesses, including the wife of the main suspect in the case, Robison's business partner Joseph Scolaro.
While Johnston admitted that the news was a bit of a let-down, she said they still plan to present a request to the Emmet County Prosecutor's office to close the case based on ballistics evidence and tests conducted 35 years ago.
The investigation into the murders got a kick-start when current Emmet County Sheriff Pete Wallin and undersheriff Tim Roth found a box full of files and police reports in a closet during the administrative shuffle that took place after sheriff Jeffrey P. Bodzick died while in office last year. While the box contained only files and did not contain evidence as erroneously reported in Tuesday's edition of the News-Review, its discovery did bring to light volumes of police investigation work done many years ago.
Wallin then assigned the case to Johnston, who called in White-Erickson to help.
Wallin echoed Johnston's confidence that the case will eventually be brought to a close.
"We don't know the answers yet. It's too early to tell," he said.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 22, 2014 1:20:22 GMT -5
So Helen did John know Busch or not? Jim Note: I don't know,I couldn't find anything,other than John had said he had a friend who commit-ed suicide on the same day as my husband,only 5 years before ,however John has deny knowing Busch to the Occk Task Force,his Dad however told me he knew Mr. Busch and his boys. You know John and Busch lived basically around the corner from each other, both were around the same age--mid-20's, both were outcast/losers with dead-end jobs, living in their parents' homes.But for some reason when I think about this I can not see John having anything to do with Busch,John had such a neat appearance and Chris was such a slob...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 23, 2014 0:34:26 GMT -5
Helen, Did Mary ever approach Mr. King with the born-again-christian act with all the honey dripping from her? Maybe that is how John got cleared?Scott Note: Good One- lol---John is never going to be cleared - as you will see and hear in my up coming video.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 23, 2014 0:43:29 GMT -5
Helen, after reading the post in Cathy's comments from the guy that never did a thing on that occk film,Well that completely tells me that his film, if it was ever done will be all Busch. So we're back to never mind about any facts surrounding the OCCK case. We don't care about Jill's bike location or anything else for that matter. Busch did it and that is all we need to know. Maybe that is why they never did come and interview anyone. They already had all the answers! Well he won't be getting any money from me to support his project and I hope no one else gives him a dime either , were interested in the real story ,no more BS. Ted
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 23, 2014 0:48:33 GMT -5
Helen, I haven't even read anything about the OCCK in forever. I hope they catch whoever did it someday, but after all the vitriol and hatred combined with what was going on in my present life, I just didn't have the heart to devote my time and effort to it. Don't get me wrong, I adore you, I just didn't care for the way the Royal families treated you....at all! Not something I wanted to be a part of anymore. Xxx Xxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 1:33:52 GMT -5
Helen, Have you notice that Karma really does work? I see by Topix' that Les Martin,is finally getting his pay backs !!!! That is great news!!! All the Lies that he has told about the Oakland County Child Killings and about you, over the years,I think this is great pay back!!! He thought he was never going to be responsible for any of it!!! Pete
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 21:38:25 GMT -5
Helen, who is mike06181 ? Isn't He One of Kdoggs Disciples ? Dave *Note: Well It could be- I Google him and he P-ee-'s all over the Internet,he is a Big Time Poster-I looked at his Photo and he looks a lot like Les from Topix, only his Belly is Bigger,I think all the Old Yahoo Group Migrated to Cathy's site along with the Topix gang...didn't they?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 21:51:52 GMT -5
Helen,In a post today at Cathy's Mr. King had a Letter on one page he said,they had just found out that they found nothing at the Busch house, why would he say that, when on 9/16/2013-This was posted "The Cottage at Ess Lake Posted: September 16, 2013 | Author: cathybroad | Filed under: Uncategorized |11 Comments » The recent statements by officials that no evidence was found in the Busch residence on Morningview Terrace in Bloomfield Village, MI," Kay * Note: Well what can I say ...They do get a little confused with their Info...But who cares-you can get the straight scoop on our site any time you want to look it up--Now I have to go over and see what your talking about
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 22:02:19 GMT -5
Helen,In a post today at Cathy's Mr. King had a Letter on one page he said,they had just found out that they found nothing at the Busch house, why would he say that, when on 9/16/2013-This was posted "The Cottage at Ess Lake Posted: September 16, 2013 | Author: cathybroad | Filed under: Uncategorized |11 Comments » The recent statements by officials that no evidence was found in the Busch residence on Morningview Terrace in Bloomfield Village, MI," Kay * Note: Well what can I say ...They do get a little confused with their Info...But who cares-you can get the straight scoop on our site any time you want to look it up--Now I have to go over and see what your talking about Ok, I went over to Cathy's and checked out what you had to say-and it is my personal opinion -that you are being to picky-He states right there that The King Family had been Informed that none of the trace evidence from the Busch home match anything to the four children-We all knew that It wouldn't so why is the date that Mr. King stated that... even Important?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 22:31:25 GMT -5
This will be the only time I answer a question about Cathy and I --and I'm only answering this,because so many of you have asked " What happen To you and Cathy"?~**Plot synopsis,then answer at the bottom.~~~ Many years ago there lived an emperor who cared only about his clothes and about showing them off. One day he heard from two swindlers that they could make the finest suit of clothes from the most beautiful cloth. This cloth, they said, also had the special capability that it was invisible to anyone who was either stupid or not fit for his position.
Being a bit nervous about whether he himself would be able to see the cloth, the emperor first sent two of his trusted men to see it. Of course, neither would admit that they could not see the cloth and so praised it. All the townspeople had also heard of the cloth and were interested to learn how stupid their neighbors were.
The emperor then allowed himself to be dressed in the clothes for a procession through town, never admitting that he was too unfit and stupid to see what he was wearing. For he was afraid that the other people would think that he was stupid.
Of course, all the townspeople wildly praised the magnificent clothes of the emperor, afraid to admit that they could not see them, until a small child said:
"But he has nothing on"!
This was whispered from person to person until everyone in the crowd was shouting that the emperor had nothing on. The emperor heard it and felt that they were correct, but held his head high and finished the procession.*** ( This is the best I can Do to explain -The above does the rest)**** I could not see any Blood at all on ropes-that Cathy called "Bloody Garrot's"---(Found in Chris Busch bedroom closet) To me they were just as I had been told-They were ropes...used for his boat- and there was no Blood on them !!! Of course today we know that is true-There was NO Blood on them!!!-When It comes to the Oakland County Child Killings-There is only Black and White there is NO Gray Area with me..no matter who you are!!! ****Detroit Free Press~• Police zeroed in on Christopher Busch, a convicted pedophile who reportedly killed himself in his parents' home in 1978. At the suicide scene, investigators found ropes in Busch's bedroom closet. Over the years, the ropes were referred to by investigators as "bloody ligatures" and were considered likely evidence that Busch tied up Timothy -- and possibly the other children -- before killing them. In April, the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office tracked down the forensic laboratory scientist who examined the ropes at the time of Busch's suicide.
"There was no blood, fibers, hairs or any other evidence on the ropes," David Metzger said in his a sworn affidavit.
Metzger, who retired from the Michigan State Police in 1981, continued: "The cases under investigation by the Oakland County Child Killer Task Force were very much on my mind at the time I examined the ropes. ... Had the presence of any blood been identified on the ropes, further testing would have been conducted and documented in an attempt to gather more evidence, such as the 'typing' of the blood observed on the ropes or making comparisons of the known blood samples preserved from the victims. There was no further testing made on the ropes."
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