OCCK FEEDBACK ~

[Helen Dagner]

Hi Helen,

Found this interesting tidbit, can't view the whole article, but it has the pychics name and a previously unheard of nickname for the murders.

I am doing some research now to see if I can find more.

Service Psychic Peter Hurkos, who tried unsuccessfully to solve the Boston Strangler murders, now has his own theory on the Sho wheat Michigan child murderer. Eight children have been murdered. Four are thought to be the work of the same man. Hurkos thinks that because each of the four victims, when found, was neat and clean and because several of them were found on white snow the murders were committe... I need to pay for this news clip ,so let me know if you want it. Kay

[Helen Dagner]

Okay, I'm pulling the articles and emailing them now...it will take a few minutes.

In the meantime, here are a few names I wrote down:

1) Gerald Richards (Has a prison record, we should be able to find him in the corrections, I couldn't get in there earlier)

2) Francis D. Sheldon (Owner of the Island)

3) Dyer Grossman of New York.

Richards was in jail as of the last article and Sheldon and Grossman could not be found.

Listed charities include:

Boy's Inc., Farmington Hills, MI
Church of the new Revelation (NJ Maybe??)
Ocean Living Institute
Educational Foundation for the youth. Don

[Helen Dagner]

Subject: Re: McKinney


I agree 100 percent....I got you the photo of the mailman....but it won't let me forward it...it says -No longer available to forward...I don't get it...I'm looking right at the d**n thing...so what is Aols problem?? Ray

[Helen Dagner]

Hi Helen,



So I was thinking… who would have enough power to cover up the OCCK cases? George Romney was appointed Secretary of HUD in 1969, resigned as Governor the same day, and was succeeded by his Lt. Governor William G. Milliken who remained Governor until 1983.



Romney lived in Bloomfield Hills, and prior to his political career he was a CEO of American Motors Corp. Milliken was born and raised in Traverse City – so far I haven’t found a connection to the auto industry.



Could H. Lee have had enough influence for the Governor to intervene in Busch’s case? There is no doubt in my mind that H. Lee Busch would have known Romney and probably Milliken. Sgt

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, IN KILLING--NORBERT PECK AND OSCAR GARCIA IN SAGINAUW MI---I read a state police artical that said they were each found in a ditch--but I know that is not true of the Garcia boy---as he was bury just about 15 feet from todds house--wasn't he?--I just can't find anything on these boys deaths at all... Jay

[Helen Dagner]

Geo, It was, Hartfield Lanes
3490 W. 12 Mile Rd
Berkley, MI
I think still
Still owned and in operation by the same family.

[Helen Dagner]

Helen,I haven't digested it all yet--He said the bars him and Ruth went to-were
the
NEWAY--THE LAMPLIGHTER--He said John-Jack...who was the dishwasher...would
always walk around in some type of trance...the girls would always tease
him
wanting him to go out in the car...he had no car...but after Tim's
murder...he
moved in with a waitress...not as girlfriend -boy friend...but because he
needed
a place to stay--his parents had sold the family home...However Joe does
not
belive him to be the killer--He is sure the guy he worked with...Jim
Hagerdy..a former Firer Fighter is...as He looked just like the composit
drawing...he
drove a 32 pontiac black...and he carried a box in his car full of strange
stuff,,on top of it was a firer uniform...and he had not been one for
years...also
he was at his house and their was buck shot in his walls..right after
Jills
murder...and then after Tims murder...he sold that house...he went to the
state
police..and the Ferndale police...and they laugh at him...and said they
knew
Jim and he wouldn't do that...much more but I need to go over it... Frank

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, This is all I could find, Cunningham Drug Store 101 S. Woodward Ave
Warren Wescott Mgr (in 1962 Directory)


There was a Cunningham family on Wooddale In Bloomfield Village. They had a daughter named Sara, and maybe some others, I don't know their names. This would have been an easy walk for John, although not across the street, etc. I don't know what Cummingham famiy ran the drug store. Do you? Is that supposedly the same one that John knew? There was also another Cunningham family about 1/2 mile from John. Stan


----- Original Message -----

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, Sounds good. Sounds like quite the international case now. Did you report his email to xxxxxxx xxxxxx, too? Because they can just shut his email down, and that would accomplish something. thanks for not giving my name out, even in the police report. I don't want any attachment at this point because it sure sounds like a lot of freaks are making friends with various cops. I'd rather not even let anyone know I'm even xxxxxx and from MI. My yahoo addy can give that away to him. Of course, many of the folks are from MI. Hopefully, since he threatened publicly, that alone can shut him down. And why after all this time, is yahoo still unable to tell their servers are being used to still send out threatening emails? They are idiots. Xxxxx

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, We got are connection with mark...his mother


Cheryle worked with them both at the resturant...as did her dad....and then
the two women worked with...john-jack...at a plastic company...making
reflectors.....no I think ruth had gotten a clue some how apon her death bed...and she
knew that cheryl...would have the info...if the right questions were
asked....this is that devine intervention...we have been praying for...don't you think? Rita

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, During the second week of Dec 1976, John's father took a swing at his mother and hit her over the face and head. (The same week Jill was taken. Kristine was taken 2 weeks later). His mother suffered a nervous condition and couldn't work. John was being evicted from his parents home. (The same day Tim King was taken). The home he probably kept the children in was on the market for immediate sale at an offset price. The killings stopped.

All coincidences surely. Dean

[Helen Dagner]

My god Helen, I just went to Cathys site and viewed the Photos of Green,I can not help but wonder what you thought when you saw the ones with long hair? I thought well Cathy must have confused those Photos with John's,They look Identical to the ones you showed me of John. Dale Note: I have to say I was taken back when I saw them, his long hair was just like John's...Now if we could only find out why Bennett will not admit to knowing John ... Nor will John admit to his knowing Bennett -When my hand written notes from my time with John clearly list Doug Bennett as John's Friend ??

[Helen Dagner]

Helen,

Mark - taken from approximatley 9 Mile and Woodward.

From Royal Oak - 5.7 miles, 13 min.
From Warren - 8.5 miles, 20 min.

Jill - Unknown, used 13 mile and Woodward. (Add 2 miles for 11 mile and woodward)

From Royal Oak - 1.39 miles, 4 min.
From Warren - 7.5 miles, 18 min.

Kristine - Used 7-11 address

From Royal Oak - 2.8 miles, 6 min.
From Warren - 9 miles, 23 min.

Tim - Used corner of Hunter/Maple

From Royal Oak - 4 miles, 12 min.
From Warren - 11.5 miles, 22 min.

On a side note, 696 comes up on most directions, I have mapped them avoiding highways as 696 was not built until the mid 80's, it was 10 mile at the time of the abductions. Ray

----- Original Message -----

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, His theory on the cabin "Up North" may not be so far fetched, it was, and still is, quite common to have a family cabin somewhere. Up North doesn't have to mean North on 75, some people had vacation cabins on Cass Lake, or other lakes in the West Bloomfield, or Walled Lake areas. The cabin could have been in Wayne County, it could have been an old hunting or fishing camp on acres and acres of land. It wouldn't even have to be his own families cabin...it could have been a friends and he knew where the key was kept, or how to go in through a rear window. It could have been a barn, a boat house, a garage. The possibilities there are endless. John lied enough to cover his tracks, it is reasonable to assume he lied about where he took the children because that is hard evidence...find the location and you catch your killer.

I have also had theories that John took the children because he wanted to keep them, which offers the best explanation for why he cared for them before he killed them.

We know John was not completely honest with you. He fed you facts mixed with fiction and it was intentional. We need to find the holes in Johns story, and then connect the dots. We are missing something Helen. You have three hundred plus matches in his story yet we can't get LE to take us seriously. What do they know that doesn't fit? We need to figure out the rest of the story, the part he didn't tell you the truth about.

You will sometimes hear a possibility that may fit, and you go back to check your notes. Maybe something in all the rambling by Mike, or others like him, will help trigger the missing key to the puzzle. If one goes back and reads they will realize that although much of Oakland County is the same, 696 was not there, the ramps to I-75 off Square Lake Rd. were not built yet, and a great visual, compliments of Casual Observer, regarding the pharmacy when Tim was taken. On a side note, there was an F&M pharmacy across 9 mile that had an awning like the one CO described. It forces us to toss out facts we may not have otherwise realized, maybe one of these facts will become important.

Again, I am not lending credibility to his theory and could poke a ton of holes in it as well, such as the killer was driving North on I-75 the morning Jill was killed. Would he be so brazen as to get off the freeway, take the turn around, drive right by the Police Station on the "on-ramp" just to stop and kill Jill? Where was he coming from?

Personally, I have yet to see a suspect I like better than John I think he did it. Now we have to figure out the loopholes and close them. Matt

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, Just look at this www.justiceforjohnnygosch.com/The_Case.html Noreen Gosch receives a new picture of one of the "perps" that molested Johnny and many other boys. These pictures appeared in a magazine called Piccolo that was published in The Netherlands in the late 1970's and early 1980's. The man has been identified by an anonymous source. If anyone has additional information on "Delta," please contact Noreen at [e-mail].