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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 3, 2014 22:56:17 GMT -5
Helen, you happen to have more Busch discussion going on here than elsewhere at the moment. That is not good! Frank Note: I'm just showing off my knowledge-lol
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 7:21:29 GMT -5
Jim,First off, Renaissance Vineyard Church was formed from two church organizations in 2011. They are of First Baptist Church of Ferndale & Royal Oak Vineyard Church. The word Vineyard in the name as follows: The nondenominational parish is part of a larger community of churches all sharing the Vineyard name, which, according to Pool, comes from the Middle Eastern idea of a vineyard as the people for whom God cares. So make note - it has no reference to a real wine Vineyard. Taken from www.candgnews.com/news/churches-ferndale-royal-oak-combine-under-new-namealso stated here www.renvc.com/our-story/Picture shown here; www.candgnews.com/news/churches-ferndale-royal-oak-combine-under-new-nameBeing part of the The Association of Vineyard Churches there is a history of this church organization but it appears to be out of state. As stated here; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Vineyard_ChurchesSo unless Royal Oak Vineyard Church history goes back before 1992, John's reference to 'Vineyard' in his OCCK map from the early 90s is hardly connected to this church. My conclusion, just a coincidence. His Vineyard reference is for something else.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 11:25:47 GMT -5
Helen,Wasn’t the Vineyards on John’s map because he once worked at that place on Franklin Road? It’s a restaurant that has since moved about 5 miles up the road on Northwestern HGWY. Ted
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 14:16:30 GMT -5
Hi Helen, I noticed on your board that you have confirmed that the wall drawing of the suspect with the beard is not Chris Busch. Do you know who it is? Dan Note: Well it sure looked like Chris Busch to me!!! However I was told that it wasn't anyone -a sketch artist drew many different faces ,just to jog peoples memory's and also to hang on the Task Force walls,which I guess was a good Idea-there are 31 of them-I have them some where on the site ,I couldn't bring them up on a search,so I'm thinking I must have posted them on my .com and just listed the Url on this site,so they may be gone for ever-The sketches were not of real suspects or eye witness reports-you know what I'm saying right? Just the Old Smoke an Mirrors game-lol
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 17:50:16 GMT -5
HELEN,MAKE NOTE - Jim Pool Lead Pastor at Renaissance Vineyard Church (Also shown in those links) is friends with Mary M. on FB. So YES there is indeed a connection to your suspect John. ABSOLUTELY! Sgt.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 17:54:49 GMT -5
Helen,My mother just told me this,Mary M also has that church as an interest group on FB. The actual news articles you have links for has Mr. Jim Pool stated in the article. So they really do have god on their side which allows the doors to open to all their lies! Betty
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 21:53:41 GMT -5
Helen, Would you re run the Chicago Report? Larry....Note: This is all that will come up in the files that yahoo put all of this stuff in--Did I tell you Yahoo Sucks!!!! Chicago Report Sunday, July 8, 2007 5:34 PM
From: To: Bingotank@aol.com
Sorry for the delay...I was waiting for permission to run this report in it's entirety....only to find out-that is not possible....I should have known that would be the results-as with the Occk cases...it always is-for some reason..everyone thinks they need to hold on to their work product...in the event -that the Serial Killer is caught...it appears that everyone is hoping to cash in on this case...if that happens!....For the new site readers -who have no idea what the Chicago report is all about...It is an analysis and summation of files I sent in to a Consulting Firm-for there opinion....The group consists of Profilers-who do Victimology -Suspect Profiling-Geographic Profiling-and they analyze Police procedures & Forensic Psychiatry--The first item I will tell you about...is that we have been bashing the LE ...sometimes with out justification-the group determined..after reading my files....that from day one...the Task Force did all it could with what they had to work with...some of the problems were not their fault-Competing Jurisdictions,Contaminated Crime Scenes-A Tsunami of so called leads and Tips,that had to be followed up on-one by one-only to lead no where-this combined with Political & Public Pressure and lack of a good suspect description-plus the fact that they were unaware until the 3rd death that it was even a Serial Killing case.-At this time in 1976-77-Serial killing was rather new and investigatory procedures were not well established like they are today.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 4, 2014 23:13:32 GMT -5
Helen,Personally, I feel the biggest detriment to the investigation came when the detectives who had been working the murders of Mark and Jill and the kidnapping of Kristine, were ordered to turn over their murder books to the taskforce and assigned to other cases.
The taskforce started looking for one person that could be connected to all 3 murders. All a viable suspect needed was one girlfriend, parent, whoever, to say “Nope, he was with me at that time” and they were crossed off the list.
Tim’s disappearance changed the course. Now the taskforce was no longer working a murder, but a kidnapping. And the tips that came in immediately following? Erased….seriously??
There is one suspect that witnesses can place at the American Legion Hall the day of Mark Stebbins’s abduction. This same suspect was a student of Jill’s father, Mr. Robinson. Jill was shot on the side of I-75 within site of the Troy , PD, most likely during the midnight shift. Why is that important? This same suspect was friendly with the cops that worked nights and possibly used Jill as a means to get close the investigation.
You would think this would be enough to warrant an investigation from the taskforce, but NO…not even being a regular customer at the bowling alley Kris’s mother worked at was enough.
And that Lady at Landmark last seen having dinner or lunch with McKinney …..strong resemblance to this same suspects mother. The police cared enough about that case back in the late 70s to hypnotize the waitress who served them, but wasn’t the slightest bit interested when pictures were sent with the police sketch a few years ago.
In the past several years we have watched suspect and suspect paraded in front of the media. It was Norberg! No, wait, we meant Raar….or was it Lawson? Maybe Lamborgine….HAD to have been him. Or, maybe it was Grant, maybe it was Busch. Wow! We have a DNA match…how does Gunnel, a 14 year old boy fit in. And just how many people in the country will match that particular Mitochondrial DNA?
Yet through all of this, why hasn’t this one single suspect been thoroughly investigated? Why wasn’t Spidey’s statement about the bike taken seriously? What about the lady who saw him in the pharmacy or the phone calls that occurred that we know to be true.
In my opinion, the taskforce needs to go back to the basics. Start with Stebbins, and solve it. Move on to Jill. Solve it. Then Kristine and finally Timmy. Quit looking for the common thread, if they solve one case, and they are in fact all connected like we believe them to be, then the other cases will be easier to solve.
At least one of the detectives in the earlier cases is still alive. To the best of my knowledge the new taskforce has never contacted him. Really? Isn’t that Cold Case protocol 101 to go back to the original investigating detective?
And to think this very taskforce was so highly praised! ( Name Withheld)
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 5, 2014 6:40:54 GMT -5
Helen,The King connection could be as simple as the Hunter House, a well known burger place. Also, let's not forget Woodward was at the height of cruising while XXXX was growing up. The comments for the Dream Cruise reminisce about cruising Woodward from 10 mile to Square Lake, and mentions places such as the Totem Pole (restaurant at 10 & Woodward) and Ted's drive in (another restaurant) which would have been around Square Lake and Woodward. All of the kids except Jill was left West of where they were abducted. I still think Jill was intentional for the city of Troy and I'm certain there were clues there but can't tell you exactly what they were. By the time Kris was taken Danto was involved, so the drop offs went to BL (Bruce Lane) - thought to be clues at the time. If I have my act together now, Federal sat on the NW corner of 9 mile and Woodward, where The Old Navy sits today. Mike
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 5, 2014 6:49:20 GMT -5
Helen,you need to check out the Bowling Alley connection.I used to bowl at Strike and Spare at Telegraph and 15 Mile (Maple), Birmingham Bowl and Thunderbird Lanes(Troy). It was popular for kids to spend time at the alleys,and I think Jill may have gone to Thunderbird Lanes(Troy) at least that is what someone told me. Tom
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 5, 2014 21:00:55 GMT -5
Well Helen. Even if someone did once in a lifetime come along and have some earth shattering news that could break this case wide open, who would you trust with it? Are there any cops anywhere that somone believes care about finding the truth? Are any of them really dedicated to any truth when it comes down to it? I reflect back to the question - How can Spidey make the claims he does and not even have his finger prints ever taken? Is it the cost? I highly doubt it. After all a child with a detective fingerprint kit can take someone's finger prints and probably take a wild guess if it's in the neighborhood of matching some thing. A brief examination can determine that. They could have at least pretend to take Spideys fingerprints to make it look like they are doing something. If they don't do anything with that information how can anyone expect them to do anything with anything else involving this case for that matter? Are the Kings all about the truth when they have someone make claims about Jill's bike recovery location without one single document? Do they ever care to correct the misinformation they give out? Like the bloody ropes? I'm just fed up with this whole OCCK case. They can just leave this case for all the looney's out there as far as I'm concern. I'm fed up with the whole d**n thing and everything about it! James
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 6, 2014 12:47:36 GMT -5
Helen that makes it official. Fox Island is the answer. Time to hang your hat and let justice takes it's course. LOL Ray NOTE:----I agree-Fox Island is never going to Die,so these "people" will have something to talk about and twist for many years...seems to me it would be a lot easier to just face the facts,however that would be too admit, some people have been on the wrong track ...for a very long time-in other words "They were Wrong" and used up a lot of peoples resources and patience,and took this case back to the stone age-meaning day one
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 6, 2014 17:12:38 GMT -5
Helen, No, I didn't read it as it wants me to create a user-id, etc..,and you know what that would mean,everyone would be tracking your on line movement,like a telemarketer you can not get rid of,all these sites who ask for this Info sell it to someone else. Geo
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 6, 2014 17:22:00 GMT -5
Helen, It was nice to see what a lovely lady Jill's sister turned out to be,but I to would not give a site the kind of info they wanted,I will wait until you post the story,minus all the pervert stuff.I'm really tired of it that is why I quit going to Cathy's site,that is all she and her members talk about and we have heard the same thing over and over,and it takes us no where with these cases. Mary Jane
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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 7, 2014 7:23:15 GMT -5
Nice picture of Jill's sisters. I still laugh when I think about it when that Terri-Cody-FlipOver outfit accusing you of stealing that picture from someone and showing it without their permission. Did anyone ever tell that stupid twit that the picture came from an old magazine article on OCCK? She claims she was a researcher. LOL BOB Note you can not tell the twit's anything....they know it all!!!
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