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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 2:57:29 GMT -5
In the matter of Alpena Witness-The police learned some important information when he came forward. The fact that he did not report it until sometime after the event-does not make it less valuable nor does it lessen his credibility-we have talked to Loretta as you suggested and she confirms the AW story.The fact that he made several attempts to immediately contacted the police when he realized that there may have been a connection to the Oakland County Child Murders speaks volumes-LE knows that this type of information is not made up-the issue here is there is not much that can be done with the map drawing information at this time other than as a tool-The fact that you have the maps and the one is drawn exactly as the witness has described and that it can be proven that the witness was indeed at the location on the date and time of the map drawings at the Big Boy restaurant in Alpena-does make him a valuable witness -if not the most valuable one in this entire case thus far-Helen,the usual Serial Killer investigation groupie-tries to inject himself into a case by concocting a big,central,pivotal role in the case.The Alpena Witness does the exact opposite.His testimony not only corroborates and strengthens much of what is already on record,he does so from the periphery and makes no attempt to move to the center stage of the investigation.
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:03:27 GMT -5
Oakland, Michigan, 1977. Psychic Phil Jordan was called in by police on a multiple child-murder case. In what police dubbed "Operation ESP," Jordan was taken to the various abduction sites and provided with evidence and photos to "psychometrize" (obtain psychic feelings about). Later five senior investigators reviewed his pronouncements, finding them not only vague but even contradictory and fundamentally useless. An interoffice memorandum concluded that such psychic claims "simply cloud the facts and cause an investigator undue feelings of failure." (Lyons and Truzzi 1991, pp. 226-27.)
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:07:40 GMT -5
Hi Helen, First of all, thanks for keeping the campaign alive to find the OCCK. It's very much appreciated. I had a question for you - you said that "John" had attended Catholic schools growing up. Did he attend Brother Rice, HS by any chance? Do you know what year he would have graduated? I am a BR grad from the very early 70's and knew a lot of Rice kids who lived in Tim King's neighborhood. Thanks. Mark
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:12:26 GMT -5
Helen, My two most interested unsolved crimes are the OCCK and the Zodiac. I want the OCCK caught and I think you have so much evidence that it just cannot be overlooked. If "John" has multiple personalities and just thinks he is the OCCK, its too bizarre a scenario to comprehend, IMO. He gave you too many details and there are too many coincidences. I'll keep in touch. James
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:19:09 GMT -5
Helen, I just noticed that John's siblings were two brothers and two sisters. The OCCK victims were two boys and two girls. Coincidence? Could these victims have represented each of siblings in some way? Perhaps family jealousy? Anything "hot" going on with your work right now? Do you think "John" is currently in Colorado, Lake Orion or Atlanta? JJ
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:21:57 GMT -5
Helen, Could these abductions have occurred during school spring breaks while the rest of the family went out of town, perhaps? Ted
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:24:21 GMT -5
Helen, Thanks again for your understanding and sorry for the mix-up. I'm glad you understand my concerns. Xxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:28:13 GMT -5
Helen, That would explain him moving to Atlanta who has an excellent mass transit system. It wouldn't explain Lake Orion unless he is living with someone (like his daughter). Chuck
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:31:14 GMT -5
Helen, Is that St. Lawrence in NY or Lawrence Tech University in Southfield (Math/engineering school).? Ray
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:38:53 GMT -5
Helen,One other note - please don't give up. I sense some frustration on your posts (eg. LE, knucklehead email senders, . This has been a long ordeal for you but you've come up with quite a lot information in just the past year. I for one, appreciate all the time, effort and expense you've gone thru to date. Most of all, your supporters, victim families and the victims up in heaven very much appreciate your efforts, as well. Dale
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 17, 2013 3:44:23 GMT -5
Hi Helen, Is this your own personal email? The details of your plan is quite interesting. Good luck with it. It appears you have given up on Cory and the Task Force clowns. I don't blame you. What's the timetable for Oak Park? A couple of quick other questions: 1) Did the college forensic teams ever get back to you with REAL interest in looking at this case? 2) Is John still in xxxxx xxxxx or is he back in Atlanta right now? Frank
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 20, 2013 1:36:05 GMT -5
Dave, I, for one, have stopped losing any sleep over this aspect of the OCCK mess. Helen
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 20, 2013 1:41:27 GMT -5
Helen, I was told that picture was Xxxxx and that while being told this he was laughing to me and the other person present, saying the police were so stupid, and that they would never figure this whole thing out, when I asked him well, why's that? he said the police he and Xxxxx knew, did too good of a job covering-up. But he and his friend did say that was him. He told me this when we were up north at his brothers in Commins,Mi. near Tawais/Alpena area. This comment he made out of the blue about him being the composite, and that they never put it out for anyone to see, made me curious when I got back home and I had printed your collage off your site and kept looking at that partial sketch's face, A month later I came to him and showed him the picture , I didn't say anything, and he held it and looked at me and said, "looks just like me, doesn't it?.. I then said "Is that you"? and he said yes... that was when they almost caught me, because a witness at a bus stop was so sure he was the Occk, He was trying to get the public's attention, and my xxxx said the witness was trying to beat his ass and make him come out of the car, and in the process the witness broke the windshield(cracked it), he said it was by a party store off of woodward near a bus stop. Oh and also he said this witness pulled his knit cap off his head while they initially had started exchanging word's, Xxxxx said the composite of the man with a shag/knit cap on/and sunglasses, is also him. He said he always wore those sunglasses and his cap, used to like to drive around in his car on the c/b, driving all over meeting up with other c/b r's. He said that composite was not put out either. He talked a lot about Kris. Xxxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 20, 2013 1:45:21 GMT -5
Helen, Any new help from the police? Is C. Williams dragging his feet? I know...lots of questions. Keep up the fight! Dean
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 20, 2013 1:50:38 GMT -5
Helen, I know of two people that were pulled over by the police because they drove that Blue Gremlin at the time. They were also followed home by little old ladies, etc and were always looked at funny. What shoddy police work! Unless someone saw Tim King in the blue gremlin...they did a great disservice to the public. John may have even walked "home" with Tim King. In fact, I bet there were suspects dismissed because they did not drive a blue gremlin. Rob
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