-Lies,Personal Attacks and Intentional Distortions

[Helen Dagner]

Just prior to the first murder, John's first girl friend, that he had hoped
to marry, dumped him-because he was broke, with no prospects....It was then
he stared thinking more about the injustices social & financial class
system and how he was a victim of it all- THIS IS PART OF MY TESTIMONIAL FROM 2000 above-It can be found all over the web-and the full text is on this site-I did not know -nor did John tell me-I learned from the FOIA papers -that this is the same gal who turned in a tip on John -that he could be the Occk-because he looked like the sketch also she attend a party once with him in Royal Oak-This was a house party put on by one of Johns friends-she didn't know the friends name and at that party she was approached by a friend of Johns with a mustache-who told her that she looked like a singer named steve tyler from the Arrow Smith--Later on in the conversation,she can't remember how it came up,she recalls him saying "It's not their fault they remind me of my ex-wife"-from those two comments,and her knowledge of the song by the band Arrow Smith,she said the phrase "children of the season"-she believed that John and the guy with the mustache might be involved in the Oakland County Child killings together.( We now know the guy with the mustache) was Johns little brother-

[Helen Dagner]

We have documents for this thread-however we are so overwhelmed-will just get them up when we can-

[Helen Dagner]

More from the girl friend-She thinks he might have smoked marijuana,but not on too many occasions.She couldn't really recall those times.She said she did meet Johns mother a couple of times when they were going out-She also had the impression that the father might have been dead. She couldn't recall meeting him.She thinks there might have been a sister xxx who lived in the house.She said that in his room John had a strange painting of some faces in a large building. She said she did not have the impression that he was terribly smart,but she thought he was kind of a" smart ass". She said they had a mutual breakup.They just did not want to be with each other anymore. She said she can't recall his ever speaking of a trip to Europe.- BLK 01610-Cdr.D Studt

[Helen Dagner]

This interview took place on Feb 26, 1992, in Alpena. WE picked XXXX up at her house, in the presence of Helen, and interviewed her in the car while we were driving around. XXXX was not very cooperative in answering any questions and was not forthcoming with any information, she said she didn't trust police officers, and we later found out that one of her sons had been arrested the day before on a warrant by the state police. Both of her boys had been arrested for Breaking and Entering and Stolen Goods. She said that she knew Mr X for a short time before becoming pregnant six years ago (At that time). She lived at the time in Lake Orion. She never married and Mr X never lived with them on a full time basis. She and Mr X had not been lovers since very early in the pregnancy. XXXX said that she did hear the conversation at the Round Table restaurant with Helen, where Mr X and Helen discussing this child killer case, and Mr X told Helen that he (Mr X) cooked chicken for the kids. I asked XXXX if she thought Helen's theory was worthwhile, if she believed Mr X could be responsible for this. She said she didn't know. She did say that she thought Mr X was a pervert. I asked her what she meant by that. She said she thought Me X was perverted for a variety of reasons. She said he was a window peeper, and I asked how she knew that. She told me one time when they were living down here (after she had the baby), she caught Mr X coming to her house and looking in the front window of the porch.

[Helen Dagner]

Narrative-Stud and xxxx-He recalled the conversation in which he and Helen and John got into about a week or so ago. He didn't know the date.This conversation was speculating on The Oakland County Child Killings cases. He said that he recalls Helen and John had lengthy conversations about it, He said John did not ever admit to being involved in this case. However,he offered a lot of details and Helen offered a lot of details on these series of crimes, He could not recall any of the specific ,but was certain that John did not admit involvement. I asked him if he believed that John could do this. His response was "Hell,Ya." I said what do you mean by that? He said he thought John was like a fish moving underwater where you can't see the fish but you can see the movement. He also said he thought John flipped in and out of gear a lot. I asked what he meant by that and he said he's just a very weird person and he could never quite understand what he was saying or what he was doing.Other than that,he really had no further information.BLK01636-3-25-92

[Helen Dagner]

Re-Post-The Oakland County Task Force-Det. Garry Gray & David Robertson said/{This person was fully investigated by very competent investigators and closed for numerous reasons and documented facts. When we decided to rejuvenate the OCCK investigation several years ago, we did take a second look, and spent a reasonable amount of time combing over this particular suspect's case file and the information contained therein. I also talked to the investigators who actually worked on him. I concur with their findings and the matter remains closed.}/// Helen Says- I can positively say that a thorough Investigation was not done on John-Oh 10 years ago I would have just let it go-but I have Interviewed soooo many people over the last 10 years-that I know this is not true! Let's start at the beginning....I'm not going to quote my extensive Occk files-as all the information is so imbedded into my mind...that I am just going to start...and will see where this takes us-The first LE- I called was the Birmingham PD....That connection was to Det.Don Studt...after a few conversation with him...I started to mail him daily reports on John...then the night that John drew the Maps of the pick up & drop offs of each kid..I called Don...and told him I was sending them down...well with in a few days Don called to say he... and I believe his chief {I can not remember his name & I never ever even have asked anyone to tell me-as he was such and unmemorable person-I didn't need his name} would be up to talk to me & would also be at the Big Boy restaurant when John & I would meet for coffee-sure enough they arrived two days later and I was to meet them at the Holiday Inn in Alpena Michigan...just before noon-at the pool area...when I arrived I just found myself a table and sat down...seemed like I waited for a bit...and then I saw my daughter come out of a room ....where she had been interviewed by them{I had no knowledge that she would be there...{as she left she said..".I had to take off from work-for them to figure out -if your & my head were screwed on tight?"}...To this day she has not told me what they discussed...nor have I asked her. Then Don and his boss introduced them selves...they were all smiles...and had indeed been busy since they hit Alpena-they had already talked to my parole officer...who told them -she just loved me-I was such a great person{I just smiled...because I knew that she had said that-then she told them how I did under cover work-ect. ect....they also talked to a lot of other people about me-the chief of the Alpena police dept.-the Lt. ect. ect....I only mention all of this -so you will see that more investigation was given to me...than to John...so that afternoon we went out for dinner...and did not talk about the case at all...as they were still trying to size me up...I only order Orange Juice...and they found that quite upsetting....then back to their car...we went and pick up the mother of John's child...and the only questions they asked her...was do you think John is interested or in Love with Helen...she answer NO!....and then....Don & his boss had the opportunity...but did not take it...to view some physical evidence...that could possibly of contain the children's Dna....That is when I knew that they really did consider John a suspect...and were going to follow all the rules....We then drop off the mother of Johns child...and they dropped me off to meet up with Beth...and they would go get situated in the restaurant...So Beth & I took are regular booths and waited for John....Who for the first time ever...NEVER SHOWED UP....Then we all left separately and grouped back up a block down at the Gas station.....and they told Beth & I that they were going to see John in the am...so we rode by his apartment..I gave them the lay out...{his light was on}...and I knew what he was doing...He was still reading The book Sheep in Wolf's...a library book that I had just picked up that day...and asked John if he would like to read it first...this is the same day that I lied to John and told him I was going to meet with Mr. King and his daughter at Big Boy that night...and he was welcome to join us...this is also at the time he had a Freudian slip...as he walked across his living room..He said" He will recognize me" MORE SOON....

[Helen Dagner]

The Oakland County Child Serial Murder Case-Lies,Personal Attacks and Intentional Distortions
Ok-Lets get this out of the way-so I can get to my other emails--You all want to know If I plan to sue Don Studt and the Birmingham police-NO I'm not going to-as the courts down in that area -it all takes for ever-and as you know-I don't have for ever--this isn't about money-These cases could have been solved back in 1992 or at the very latest 2004 when Robertson and Gray took over the Occk files-IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE RIGHT INFO-WHICH I DID PROVIDE-These cases would be history--So what am I going to do? I fight like a man-so I'm surprised they don't all know that by now=I'm not going to stay mad...I'm going to get even!-I am going to post everything that has been twisted to sound like something else-I am going to post the truth-That is going to be the weapon of my choice -and they can not stand up to that...

[Helen Dagner]

BLK-01613 Studt-I also got a call from Helen Dagner that day.Helen said that John had just spoken with his sister and the sister seemed quite agitated and told John that the police should not interview the mother alone because " you know what her fantasy is." John was very angry with Helen for causing this to happen and was not speaking to her at the time.She also indicated that John had moved to a homeless type house with a guy named Scott whom Helen use to date.She said that the electricity had been turned off in Johns house so he had to move. WELL Studt this is all interesting-However not one true word-To begin with I did not know until after the fact that you had Interviewed Johns Mother-Nor did I know she had a fantasy-and I sure did not know Johns power was turned off...and Scott own the house that John moved into and I never dated Scott ever in fact I didn't even know Scott until John and Rick moved in there Boy it is a good thing I'm 70yrs old...or I would never be able to account for all these men that you are attributing to me!...and one more thing-I did not over here this conversation (-if it actually did take place}-the only conversation I ever over heard with John and his sister was the one were John was going to take off and go over seas-just like he said he did before-You should remember that one-where the sister told him to" get out of there before those two women find out the family secret"...and by the way-I was already working in the UP at this time--You must of been on Crack when you typed up these reports!

[Helen Dagner]

HELP- Does anyone recall-and incident at the Birmingham Police Dept.-in Feb -March -or April 1992-That may have involved the Chief of Police and or Don Studt ? If you do -call me on the Tip line-or Email me at [e-mail] ASP

[Helen Dagner]

Chief's name was ED Ostin

[Helen Dagner]

Part 2

Jill Robinson's mom, details of argument with Jill, father Tom Robinson, locations of Jill sightings, details of Jill's Bike and locations, and Spidey's testimony.

[Helen Dagner]

The sketch of the Guy and the two dogs-was also not turned over to the Task Force-However we can not blame Don Studt for that-as he never had a copy-It was a different Police Dept.

[Helen Dagner]

Helen, I was just looking at the photo of Johns parents two homes and I see those bushes that John always talked about,where his mother would hid and jump out at the kids. Amazing!! Rita