Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 15, 2011 10:02:15 GMT -5
I saw Cathy last night on Channel 4 pleading for the FBI to get involved. I was told that the FBI was already involved as they are examining the drawings of John to determine whether or not he may have been the artist of the "Stebbins" drawing?
Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 16, 2011 3:10:50 GMT -5
I don't think anyone understands. That is what makes these horrendous crimes so difficult to digest. The lack of an "official" killer makes it even harder to accept. We live in a CSI kind of world where we want it wrapped up in the end so we can move on - but it doesn't work that way.
Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 26, 2011 18:32:09 GMT -5
In early 2003 the chatter on this case picked up, which was shortly after I provided information to anger. Are you interested in comparing notes? My name is Leslie Martin. I work at American Axle World Headquarters in Detroit. I am a respected engineer(not a fruitcake). My info may support your theory, but be prepared to find that it may conflict also. My info is quite extensive and maybe in a strange way you will help make this persons name public yet. I believe that the task force, if we can still call them that, are focused on only one person. Some of my beliefs now are the same as yours, that some detectives would rather not solve this opposed to being publicly embarrassed by previous mistakes. I would not mind chatting with you face to face and I suggest you could bring anyone with you if you are too nervous. They have a gourgeous lobby and lunch room at AAM. I believe it is conceivable this case can easily be solved with DNA. They just need to ask me a few more questions. (I know where the dog is buried) My picture of my wife, grandson and myself are on my Yahoo profile if you haven't looked yet. ( P.S. I am not a/the killer ) LOL.-2004
Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 8, 2011 20:50:28 GMT -5
Ok, the gloves are coming off again. The MSP and the Oakland Co, Sheriff now want Tim King's (and my) Dad's DNA sample. These agencies had a local police chief, who is not on the "task force"," call with the request this afternoon. Friday afternoon--the time always favored by the MSP higher-ups to return my Dad's calls before he filed a FOIA action after they shut him down.
A couple of things: These morons already have my Mom's DNA sample--they took DNA samples from all of the mothers when they decided to do mitochondrial DNA testing of evidence around the time they were digging Norberg up out west. Back when the technology was relatively new. Mitochondrial DNA is a maternally-passed marker. Why do they all of a sudden need my Dad's DNA? Did they lose my Mom's DNA sample or extinguish the entire sample in testing? Did they JUST NOW discover yet another "new" hair or other DNA on Tim's clothing after they have supposedly been retesting the kids' clothing SINCE 2005?! Have they finally found the missing hairs recovered from Tim's body so that they could test them? Hairs that were in the "evidence room vortex"? Is this evidence, unlike all the rest they claim is so degraded, good enough to yield nuclear DNA? If not, the father's DNA is useless, because mtDNA is inherited solely from the mother. If some "recently-discovered " sample is of bodily fluids, why would they only ask my Dad and not my brothers to provide a DNA sample?
The siblings would provide a closer DNA sample than the father, unless their contention is that the sample came from the father. So, will it take 9-12 months to run my Dad's DNA, given the pace you have taken in the case thus far, and all of your moaning and groaning about your big backlogs? Aren't you going to send it to Quantico, like many of the other samples? If so why didn't you have an FBI agent with some stones call my Dad and ask him for a sample and perhaps give him the courtesy of a general explanation of why, at this late date, they want to run his DNA?
I know the Oakland County Prosecutor, the MSP--any O.C. agency--will NEVER do anything constructive in the OCCK cases. Why won't they meet with the FBI (heavy-hitter agents familiar with this type of crime, interrogating living participants/witnesses, and possible LE corruption--not simply someone assigned as a "contact") and Wayne County (who has the horse-power and intelligence to do this right)? I can only conclude that it is because they do not want these crimes solved and they certainly want to thwart the efforts of others who can do it.
Mess with us all you want. You just don't get it. We have already been through hell--you are nothing in comparison. If you have some other suspect, great. But can we, at this point, trust you to do a complete investigation, connect the dots and come clean if necessary? No. Not only no, but HELL NO. I know you want a suspect who is not someone you questioned, polygraphed and cleared (John H., Chris Busch, Greg Green) or someone who was an obvious suspect and quickly cleared (John McKinney). But will somebody ask Dr. Spitzer why they would need my Dad's DNA sample at this point? The guy has nothing to hide, but doesn't this reek just a little of harassment and vindictiveness?? Come get my DNA. One of your brothers in Illinois could do the dirty work for you.
Let's see--it's July 2011. How long can this be strung out; perhaps until January 2013 when a new OCP is sworn in? Mybrotherskeeper
Reply » | Report Abuse | Judge it! | #6189 54 min ago
Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 11, 2011 8:08:05 GMT -5
I will try to clarify my rant.
If the Oakland Co. Sheriff wants to collect a DNA sample from my Dad they can d**n well ask him themselves rather than use an intermediary to make the request (with instructions to answer no questions).
They can explain why my they are not able to use my Mom's DNA sample, which they tested a decade ago. Did they not record her nuclear and mitochondrial DNA sequence when they tested? Was the sample not tested in accordance with today's standards? Was it only tested for mtDNA (and if so, does that make any sense?) Did they lose the actual sample? Why can't they give a simple explanation?
Do they have "new" evidence or have they located evidence that was previously known but got "lost"? They don't have to go into detail--but how about "we need your DNA sample to eliminate you, your family members and Tim as the source of some evidence and your wife's DNA sample is insufficient because ****."
Oh--and he was told "it was no hurry." No kidding. Cathy
Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 11, 2011 19:41:57 GMT -5
Barry King sued the Michigan State Police and Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper requesting that they release documents related to a possible suspect in the case who the King’s uncovered, named Christopher Brian Busch. Now King has learned new detectives are on the case. Investigators from the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office have teamed up with MSP, and they want a genetic sample from King.
“I have no objection. I’m perfectly willing to do it, obviously, but I’d like an opportunity to talk to the new investigators who have been assigned to the case,” said King.
The Action News Investigators have also learned that another relative of a victim has agreed to give a DNA sample. Late Monday afternoon, Mike Stebbins says he gave a cheek swab of his DNA to detectives. Stebbins’s brother, Mark, was the first victim of the Child Killer in 1976.
Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 15, 2011 21:53:10 GMT -5
"He'd probably have been retired and drawing a pension. He was really gung-ho to be a Marine," said Michael Stebbins.
However, his twelve-year-old brother, Mark, never had a chance to join the Marines. Mark Stebbins is one of four innocent children believed to have been brutalized and murdered by the Oakland County child killer between 1976 and 1977.
35 years later, the case is still unsolved and still terrifying.
"I can't describe how it felt finding out that my little brother was dead," Stebbins said.
It's a nightmare these children's loved ones will carry until the day they die.
"You never forget, never," said Stebbins.
Police have never given up. Monday, Michigan State Police took DNA swabs from the victims' family members, including Michael Stebbins.
"Hopefully with fresh DNA, God willing, who knows what's going to happen," he told FOX 2's Alexis Willey.
Stebbins said there are new detectives working the case combing through evidence and suspects. Loved ones, including him, just hope this DNA brings them one step closer to the truth.
"If I had some closure, maybe I'd sleep a little better at night," said Stebbins.
Post by Helen Dagner on May 9, 2013 2:46:17 GMT -5
I notice a lot more readers are taking and interest in the Oakland County Child Killings. I know you have all sent me tons of info over the years,and I'm asking you once again,If you think you know anything about these cases,but your not sure if it is important,please send us your info..it will be taken seriously~ it only takes one person with the right piece of this puzzle,to make a real difference,and if there are any more retired cops or their family members who want to turn over your take home files...we would like to go through them-also,It is time to ask you again to go through your old photos and see if any of the names you have seen posted about people of interest could be in your albums...maybe from a summer or winter outing..maybe at a pool party at a Bar...you get the idea...Please contact me,and we will make arrangements to pick this info up...we are running out of time with the Occk cases,soon the window will close,never to open again-so please do the right thing,I feel strongly that there are people out there that know something that we don't...so please be a Hero,as these cases have gone on far to long...
Post by Helen Dagner on May 10, 2013 11:34:21 GMT -5
If I were doing the Oakland County DNA Swabbing These Guys would be on my list * Cary Wilkie former Birmingham Resident** The Livonia Real Estate Guy ** The Ann Arbor Psychiatrist (Former Resident Of Livonia) * Spike McKenzie Friend of The Kings( Deceased )
Post by Helen Dagner on May 14, 2013 5:59:24 GMT -5
Yesterday I decided to go through my contact logs and what I found was just very disturbing ,Oakland County Law Enforcement is really no closer to finding out who killed these children,then they were back in 1976-77-I found one entire note book,where one investigator had 6 prime suspects in a four year period and this was when he was telling victims family members that he knew Busch was involved?? That is why the FOIA papers are so useless to come up with a valid reason why this or that individual is suspect-If your reading Busch' you think well he must be the guy-If your reading Johns,then your sure he is the Occk-If your reading Norbergs- well you know he is the one and this goes on and on and on-and for any of us to get all of the Occk Documents on this case,it would cost more than a million dollars and what would we get for that?-Nothing to solve these cases,because little of the real information about these people of interest are even in these files,it all went home with investigators who were protecting it for their own-yes they just knew they could solve these cases,so they were not going to leave that information out there to give anyone else the opportunity-as I went through the logs,to see what info that police officer had called to ask me about,I could see that everyone was just chasing their tails,their reasoning was so off balance,that you had to wonder how they even had this job-why wasn't there at least one investigator along the way- that even by accident they didn't stumble on something that was relevant to the solving of this case?-I looked at several of their suspects and they couldn't even compare to the suspects that the public had found-I know for certain that the suspects my team came up with were much better candidates for being involved then any of the ones paraded before us from LE..how is it possible that a person who was a pedophile could reach the status of Serial-killer when there are no other matches to the crime?How is it that a person living in a two block area of where a child went to make a pay phone call and disappeared- and the guy becomes a suspect for 36 years,and no other matches to the crimes? How is it that a man who kills and infant child,becomes a suspect in the Oakland County Child Murders for 30 yrs when there is nothing to connect him to these crimes?? How is it that a man who is found to have a secret room in his home...all of a sudden becomes the Occk and the room becomes known as a Dungeon?? What is wrong with this picture ?/ To be Continued...
Post by Helen Dagner on May 16, 2013 9:21:57 GMT -5
When I refer to Michigan cops...NO I do not mean all of them...I do not even mean a lot of them...I mean a few of them-who are connected to the Occk Investigation....and what has put me over the edge...is the lengths that these few cops will go to,in order to cloud this investigation and to stop any further looking into John as a suspect. I have been putting up with this for 21 years...and I am sick of it!....These same cops have tried to derail,divert and misdirect any legitimate inquiry time & time again...by ridicule and other dirty tactics and wholly unprofessional conduct.Yet they do not miss a day of reading my site and every word on it...and who do they contact for information they can not find...ME!.....It is very obvious that all the jurisdictions have still not shared all of their info with each other...but yet they find time to bad mouth ,verbally attack,and try to discredit me and my readers-contributors....They are back at suggesting that my interest in this case is to write a book...they keep repeating this when they know better-I could have written many books about these cases-a fiction-a real life story about the way LE has covered these cases-I could have used the victims family members angle-I could have use the 900 hours with a Michigan Serial Killer Suspect...and several more titles...But have I written a book-NO...Do I plan on witting a book NO...have I appeared on TV or Radio...have I done Interviews for the news Media NO....So what could my interest be? Is it to hard to believe that I talked to the Serial Killer and I am just the messenger?....For these Cops to continually say that everything John told me has been in the news media...IS A LIE!...I have challenged many times to prove it to me...but they can not...sure my story is different then the cops...they are going according to their files...I am going according to the facts as related to me by the man I believe to be the Oakland County Child Killer...What the public doesn't know is that I have asked these same investigators to prove to me that John is not the Occk...and if they can not do that- I will concede ...and never print another post...but they can not do that...and you know why...because they never did a thorough investigation of John...they did an internal in the loop discussion among themselves...and remember these are the same cops who have paraded dozens of pedophiles before the public...claiming they are the Occk...but they weren't they were just some dirty old men..who liked to get it on with little boys....This story isn't over...I'm going to go through my files and bring you the names of the different investigators and the situations and also the reasons I believe John is the Occk...