Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 10, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
Recently I watched an episode of Cold Case Files on A&E where a serial killer was finally caught 20 years after his crimes (I guess it can really happen). It reminded me of the OCCK and how he was never caught and as I searched the internet I found Todd’s website. I was 12 years old in 1976 and even at that age I realized that I lived within this guy’s area of operation. I lived 2 miles north of where Mark Stebbins’ body was found and ½ mile west of where Kristine Mihelich was taken. This was within a 6 mile radius of where Jill Robinson and Timothy King were taken. This also was 5 miles southeast from where Kristine Mihelich was found and 5 miles southwest of where Jill Robinson was found. The impact on my friends in my neighborhood and me was profound although looking back we all seemed to live our childhoods normally while staying on constant alert. In reading some of the posts at the creationcenter discussion boards and reading and thinking about the case I have come up with a bunch of questions.
Did “John” ever tell you how he picked his victims? Were they random? How did he come across Mark? How did he happen to across Jill? How did he happen out of the bowling alley and grab Kristine? (was he watching her from the bowling alley?) Was he shopping in a store in Birmingham and in walked Timothy King? I mean, did these kids just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or did “John” stalk these kids for days or weeks ahead of time before snatching them up? I am very curious as to what he told you about this. I also wonder what the “Task Force” came up with in regards to this. It seems that even if the victims were random that he must have been searching for children to abduct (I will always wonder if he drove down our street looking for children).
How did “John” get the children into his car? In reading “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing” the task force speculated on this and came up with the assumptions that he passed himself off as a priest, cop, fireman, (someone that a child would trust even after being told not to talk to or go with strangers). I saw on one of your posts that he took Timothy King to a playground and shot hoops before actually abducting him and that he took Mark because he was small. How would he “trick” the girls into going with him willingly (or did he just grab them)?
I apologize for the long e-mail as I know you must get dozens, if not hundreds a day. I will never forget those kids and the fear that we all had to live with at that time. Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from you soon.
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 17, 2011 1:49:44 GMT -5
Oakland County prosecutors would not take this case to trial even if someone walked into the office and dumped the bones of other victims on their desk...and said-I am The Oakland County Child Killer--Yet i have known cases to go to a grand jury with much less than what they have -right now--Is there any hope for resolution on this matter...that has gone ignored for 35 years..???Let us know what you think-
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 22, 2011 0:09:47 GMT -5
Ok, here's a interesting line on the Blue Gremlin. I'm sure you've seen it, but I'm pulling it out. I don't know what good it's going to do. I think Gray is clearly admitting he needs to move on from the Gremlin.
Det News 2/18/05
The King abduction-slaying was linked to a man seen driving a blue Gremlin near the Birmingham drugstore and for months anyone driving such a vehicle drew suspicious stares. Gray and others believe the infamous blue Gremlin some witnesses claimed seeing may have nothing to do with any of the slayings. George
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 23, 2011 17:31:00 GMT -5
Detroit Free Press, Saturday, March 26, 1977: "Police hunting the killer of the four south Oakland County children said Friday that they believe he is known and being protected by someone. They pleaded with the protector to step forward and reveal the killer's identity. 'No individual could have kept four children for varying amounts of time without someone knowing--some relative, some friend,' said Birmingham Police Chief Jerry Tobin. 'He must go through periods when he's not normal and his loved ones are reluctant to report it,' Tobin said. 'But we've lost four lives because of their reluctance.' Tobin said the protector might be 'an attorney, a doctor, a wife, a mother.'"
Detroit News, March 26, 1977 (quoting Chief Tobin): "It might very well be a mother's reluctance to turn in her own son."
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 25, 2011 0:36:26 GMT -5
I wish I could stress how close Tim's house was to the store and how close the restaurant his parents were dining at that night is to the store too. Literally - a 2-3 minute walk from house to store and another 1-2 minutes to the restaurant across the street from the store. The physical reality of that really hit home with me as did that d**n water tower which I STILL can't believe I didn't even think of in the beginning! So does it match John's description?
I'll keep up best as I can while gone. Hope the videos helped! Jess
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 27, 2011 10:02:21 GMT -5
Hmmm. Well of course, it's all important. I think some of the most interesting stuff are those divorce papers. They do absolutely nothing to show guilt. But they help back up what you say ( or John said) about the violent and unhappy home. Somebody could say those dates are just a coincidence, but they can sure raise an eyebrow. It also helps, if they were looking into John's case, show some motive. That's the thing nobody undersood. What kind of a monster could do this. They assumed it was a pediphile because he choose kids only. But no pediphile is going to have young girls hostage for a couple weeks and not touch them sexually. There had to be another motive. Maybe if you can use some thing like that to support what John told you. Make sure they see those dates......like during the time Kristine was held, John's mother got a restraining order against his Dad...just days before Kristine was killed.
Also very, very important are the pants with the xxxxxxx that Jill was wearing. The one were the paper said blue jeans. I have a feeling that's what made them listen to you.
Yes, I think if it were me, I might hold a little tidbit back. Not that you're not trying to lay everthing on the table. Maybe give xxxxx the benefit if the doubt...but maybe a little tidbit, that you could provide later.
Are you planning on saying anything to xxxxx about Anthony Mitchell? He may not want to even talk about a case which was deemed an accident, but again....the location is uncanny. But again..good luck proving anything.
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 29, 2011 0:04:28 GMT -5
Don, Tim mostly played second base in the regular season. The coaches moved the players around to different positions, but Tim was primarily an in-fielder. He played outfield in the all stars games at the end of the season. Hope this helps--
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 30, 2011 2:14:18 GMT -5
Date: Thu, Feb 28, 2008 8:29 am
You really have me fired up with this post! Outstanding. Hopefully, I'll hear back soon from the AG office.
When I refer to Michigan cops...NO I do not mean all of them...I do not even mean a lot of them...I mean a few of them-who are connected to the Occk Investigation....and what has put me over the edge...is the lengths that these few cops will go to,in order to cloud this investigation and to stop any further looking into John as a suspect. I have been putting up with this for 16 years...and I am sick of it!....These same cops have tried to derail,divert and misdirect any legitimate inquiry time & time again...by ridicule and other dirty tactics and wholly unprofessional conduct.Yet they do not miss a day of reading my site and every word on it...and who do they contact for information they can not find...ME!.....It is very obvious that all the jurisdictions have still not shared all of their info with each other...but yet they find time to bad mouth ,verbally attack,and try to discredit me and my readers-contributors....They are back at suggesting that my interest in this case is to write a book...they keep repeating this when they know better-I could have written many books about these cases-a fiction-a real life story about the way LE has covered these cases-I could have used the victims family members angle-I could have use the 900 hours with a Michigan Serial Killer Suspect...and several more titles...But have I written a book-NO...Do I plan on witting a book NO...have I appeared on TV or Radio...have I done Interviews for the news Media NO....So what could my interest be? Is it to hard to believe that I talked to the Serial Killer and I am just the messenger?....For these Cops to continually say that everything John told me has been in the news media...IS A LIE!...I have challenged many times to prove it to me...but they can not...sure my story is different then the cops...they are going according to their files...I am going according to the facts as related to me by the man I believe to be the Oakland County Child Killer...What the public doesn't know is that I have asked these same investigators to prove to me that John is not the Occk...and if they can do that I will concede ...and never print another post...but they can not do that...and you know why...because they never did a thorough investigation of John...they did an internal in the loop discussion among themselves...and remember these are the same cops who have paraded dozens of pedophiles before the public...claiming they are the Occk...but they weren't they were just some dirty old men..who liked to get it on with little boys....This story isn't over...I'm going to go through my files and bring you the names of the different investigators and the situations and also the reasons I believe John is the Occk...
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 31, 2011 0:14:59 GMT -5
Yes, I work in Xxxxxxxxxx which is only about 15-20 minutes away. I don't buy the Alpena cabin theory either. They come back and dump the kids back in this area? Talk about risky! Haven't had a chance to check into the Xxxxxxx at Classmate.com but will check my HS yearbook when I get home to see if any of them attended Brother Rice. I thought his father's name was Lee based on the obituary? I'm starting to think that there may indeed be two Busch families. Just what we need - more confusion! Bob
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 1, 2011 1:39:21 GMT -5
Helen,I don't have his name. He is being careful about that. I do know that he lived alarmingly close to John though. If he was involved with any of this, I feel like John would have been tightly connected with him. And again, no facial hair on the guy Polly ran in to. If this DNA comes back as not a match then I think they would have to seriously look at John again. The two are just to d**n close physically and logistically. I would have to dig to find the names on the list you sent, but I specifically remember a Timothy Gault and a Timothy French (?) I don't know anything about any of the hairs, just the historic hair fund in Tim's mouth so all of that is new to me. Did John have a dog? Xxxxx