|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 13, 2014 9:16:39 GMT -5
Helen, Doug Wilson is the witness who saw two men behind the Hunter-Maple Pharmacy when Tim King was abducted. It was different witness who saw a Lemans on I-75.
If Art Sloan could draw that well, he should not have been a mechanic.
Has the OCCK LE ever "put the screws" to Douglas Bennett?
-----Original Message-----Ray
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 13, 2014 9:23:35 GMT -5
Helen, As soon as I saw where the above post had been made ---and the attempt at playing stupid,I knew it had to be connected to that scum bag over at Topix -as she is the only one that would pick out the longest thread on your board in order to inconvenience everyone who wanted to read that post,sorry you are being stalked by this pregnant dog,she is a moron!!! Who thinks she is clever. It wasn't Les who finally brought Topix down,it was her stupidity.What a piece of Sh-- Sue I was not referring to the post by Ray,only Interesting Reader.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 14, 2014 7:05:39 GMT -5
Helen, I read your post today in Occk ARCHIVES September 24, 1988 He kept a large collection of newspaper clippings about assaults on children, including stories about the Oakland County child killings,what I was wondering,did John have clippings of news Items like this? Dot Note: If he did,I never saw them,However a long these lines,he did have some things I thought were strange,Remember the flyers that Sears use to put out of children in there underwear,well he had stacks of them....
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 14, 2014 7:19:10 GMT -5
Helen,I had three different Angry Bears turn up yesterday on your site,when I clicked on a video,Feedback and The Dr.Is In,What is that all about? Ken Note: lol, When there are to many people who hit a thread at the same time,that message shows up,we have a very very large readership and many click on at the same time,because they do it from work on there breaks,and before they go home for the evening,many people do not have Home PC',so in order to keep up,they use their work one. When you get that message,it should reset quickly,by redirecting you.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 14, 2014 7:23:37 GMT -5
Helen, When are you going to run the Vibrator story? Mel Note: It's on the list. I just have to pull it up,however that is not and easy task and requires time that I don't have,as it is in with all the files that just say Occk,so it requires extra reading to actually find it
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 14, 2014 7:30:18 GMT -5
Helen,will you be posting some of the new information soon. Dave Note: Boy it sure doesn't look like I will be,I am having a difficult time understanding it,a lot of people are involved and I have to make very sure that all this information is accurate,that seems to be the Big Issue,as NO two statements are a like,yet the dots do connect to them all,maybe when I go over the Photos this week-end,something will jump out and grab me...I hope....
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 14, 2014 7:46:28 GMT -5
Helen,I don't think your site counter is working right,as I was all over the site last night and went back to a lot of threads and the numbers remained the same,so I clicked on them again and my clicks didn't resistor. Jack Note: Why is this important to you? Who in the world looks at the viewing numbers when they go to read a post?? I know when the weather is good like it has been for a couple of days,we will show a big drop in readers,who are busy doing other things,so they will read on a different day. I will go see what is going on and will be right back- Note: Well I hate to admit this but you are right Jack-*2014-03-13 2,715 - Yesterday,a couple hours into the day,it skipped counting,I didn't notice it because we were down a lot of views on the three days before,I'm sure it will get fixed,it means nothing to me,However I bet it will raise some eye brows with the advertisers,and that is out of my pay grade-because I have nothing to do with that- 2014-03-12 6,402 2014-03-11 6,434 2014-03-10 6,200
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 15, 2014 12:00:54 GMT -5
No Pervert killed these Kids....How many porn-meisters (even the lowest of the low, child pornorgraphers) do you know that would read the paper, find out what a kid's favorite meal is and then make sure he fed him that before killing him? Hell, half of the porn-addicted fathers out there don't leave their computer long enough to fix their kids their favorite meals any night of the week.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 15, 2014 12:07:23 GMT -5
I guess this is a good place to clear up this misconception -The Chicken Tim ate before he was murder,was not (KFC - Kentucky Fried Chicken) It was cooked for him,by the KILLER!!!
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 15, 2014 12:15:48 GMT -5
How does one just forget that there are murderers in the family? You know, Helen, the OCCK reminds me of something that happened in my own family many, many years ago. Back in the early years of the last century,to this day,no one has told! Xxxxxx
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 15, 2014 12:21:08 GMT -5
Matt, The letter I sent John was 25 pages,He had it out the day he went for the Poly up in Alpena,as Rick saw it on his bed----I never knew what to make of this-I had written a very long letter to John-out lining how I thought he should go about confessing to law enforcement and telling him-I would make sure his daughter would live near him -If he should go to prison-and then I told him I would make sure that he always had money in his prison account-but that he really needed to do this as God demands this---and he never told anyone about the letter, by this time he was living at Scotts shelter, there were lots of guys there that liked John, plus he had a spiritual adviser and both John and I were friends of the local minister who stopped by Scotts several times a day-Now it just seems to me-that he would have said something to someone about that letter-like even-boy she is a nut case!...However he never even mention it to his family-nor to the cops who came to interview him....
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 15, 2014 12:24:49 GMT -5
The following is a post sent to me by a site member-It was posted on WEBSLEUTHS.COM By-Omori -Note-I think it is one of the best posts I have read on the Chris Busch-Gunnel connection,so I would also like to share it with you- I watched the news segment on this last night and was disappointed. Sounds like another dead end. This new evidence is largely useless. The DNA, as it turns out, is mitochondrial DNA which means that it did not narrow down the suspects to an individual but only to “one percent of the Caucasian male population” which Gunnels falls into. The problem is, of course, tens of millions of people fall into this category at any given time and thousands of them live in Michigan at any given time. The segment also brought up a snatch of a phone conversation overheard between Gunnels and his sister as she talked to him through prison glass while he was incarcerated recently. She told him his DNA was found all over the OCCK victims to which he responded, “I wasn’t there when it happened.” That response, obviously, could mean almost anything. What it cannot mean is that Gunnels was confessing to the murders or admitting any guilt at all. Also brought up was that Gunnels took a polygraph concerning the murders but appeared to be holding his breath to cause false readings. But what does this mean? Nothing or anything, take your pick. Busch’s death was covered in the segment including the showing of bloody ligatures found at the scene and a pencil drawing of a screaming boy said to look like Mark Stebbins. The problem, of course, is that it is only a drawing and could have been anybody. Even stranger was the picture of Mark Stebbins to which the drawing was compared for our convenience also appeared to be a drawing ( ). How valid is comparing one drawing to another for identification purposes when photographs are available? Because, judging from the only photograph I've ever seen of Mark Stebbins, he actually doesn't look all that much like the drawing found at the Busch death scene. Maybe I'm wrong but why didn't they give us a photo to look at?? The segment also admitted nothing at the scene of Busch’s death linked Busch to OCCK including DNA testing of items removed from the scene. Whether anything there linked him to Gunnels was also not mentioned. While the segment presented the photos of the ligatures and screaming boy drawing as never before seen in public, the news of these items have nevertheless long been known among internet sleuths. They showed Mark Stebbins's brother commenting on the drawing and saying it looked just like his brother. What was not brought up was that the Stebbins family had originally accused Theodore Lamborgine as the one who kidnapped and killed Mark. Now, it's Chris Busch. The problem is, if you look at any of the main suspects, you can make them look guilty if you play up on certain things and downplay others. The bottom line is that there is no evidence Chris Busch was ever in any contact with any of the victims. What was just as noteworthy in the segment was not so much what was said but what was not. For example, the segment brought up that identical dog hairs were found on the bodies of all the victims. Yet, the type of dog was not identified nor was there any mention of a dog at the Busch cottage. They told us what certain victims had seen while they were there but did not say that any of them saw a dog. If they had seen one, why didn't the reporter mention this? Obviously nobody saw one and the dog is very important because if you find out who owned it, you find the killer. No one knows of Busch owning a dog. Regarding Jill Robinson being shot in the face with a 12-gauge shotgun, the segment revealed that one boy who had been to the Busch cottage where Busch molested or attempted to molest him stated that Busch had also taught him how to fire a 12-gauge shotgun. But the segment neglected to mention that no 12-gauge shotgun was ever recovered in Busch’s possession and even if he did have one that by itself, of course, doesn’t prove anything since 12-gauge shotguns are extremely common among gun-owners in the United States. Also not addressed is why Busch would have abducted girls when he was strictly into boys. In fact, no female victims of Busch have ever come forward that I know of. They also forgot to mention that Busch passed a polygraph shortly after he was busted as part of the North Fox Island porn ring indicating he did not abduct or murder Mark Stebbins. I think the killer was too careful to leave his/her hairs on the victims. Why go through all the trouble of bathing the bodies and washing the clothes only to leave hairs on the victims’ bodies? The hairs, in all likelihood, do not belong to the killer and may even have been placed deliberately to confuse forensics experts. None of this evidence could pass muster in front of a grand jury although the segment reported that police are discussing the possibility. Unless something vital was withheld in the segment, nothing was presented other than circumstantial evidence and nothing beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence is, in fact, very weak. This segment is just the latest in a long line of news specials that surface every few years to remind the public about the killings. All claim to have found new evidence. None of the evidence ever leads anywhere and certainly nothing from this latest one ever will. In fact, police have released Gunnels saying they have no evidence that compels them to continue holding him. I think the police might be trying to close this case due to pressure from the families of the victims and Chris Busch makes as good a scapegoat as any. I think the cops want this case closed--whatever it takes. When members of Tim King's family stated on this segment that even if Gunnels had nothing to with the killings, since he had been in Busch's car a number of times and the children had his hair on their clothes, it puts them in Busch's car as well. Needless to say, a red flag went up immediately in my mind. If they picked up Gunnel's hair in Busch's car, wouldn't they have picked up SOMETHING from Busch himself since it was, after all, his car??? And despite what they say, they NOT proven the hair was Gunnels' hair--it COULD be. They are going to hang this on Chris Busch if they can without anything solid to do it with and that means that if he is not the killer--and nothing concrete says he is--then the real killer is going to get away with it. And that will be a huge shame.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 16, 2014 2:31:17 GMT -5
Helen,I notice in Tim's Memorial on the Index page ,it says that his body was found at 11pm,is this correct? Kay Note: Well that is what the cops said,and who are we to question that? I know what you are getting at,as you helped work on this research. John said he was still in Birmingham at 25 after 8pm,the place was full of cops they were every where and in a panic he knew he had to go to the next county to make the drop,it took him all that time to realize,all the roads but one were blocked--- then he drove 13 and 1/4 miles,dropped the body,went back to the four corner shopping plaza backed into a snowbank in front of the drug store and parked, and he could see activity at the drop off site. Now the gal who lived by the drop off,and was going to the grocery store out there,said there was all ready some activity going on near her house,when she left to go to the four corners. I have no idea how long the stores were open out there and no one else seems to know either. She said after she pulled away from the grocery store,she pulled into the Drug Store and a guy was sitting in a car,acting kind of weird,like he didn't want her parking there,she knew John and thought it was him,but he did not seem to recognize her,so she did not acknowledge him. She said because of the activity by her house,she thinks Tim's body must have been discovered by the cops before 11pm.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 17, 2014 4:13:37 GMT -5
There was no hanky-panky when that Stebbins suit was filed -that is how things are done behind the scenes -Here is how that went down* (-Apparently Det. Gray and some FBI guy met with Mr. King to pitch this to him . They expressed frustration over the refusal by Ted or his "associates" to talk and suggested this route as a way to compel them to talk. Mr. King later told Gray he would not make any decisions until after he returned from a trip. Cory Williams was not involved in these discussions and apparently was out of the taskforce loop . I don't think Roberston was involved in the discussion(s) either. Gray and FBI man then apparently spoke at length a week or so later with Mike Stebbins to see if he was interested in filing a civil suit. Then Mr. King was told his partner would be filing a suit on behalf of Mark's estate in a week or so.
. None of this is Mike Stebbin's fault; he was just trying to be helpful and had been talked into this thing.... * Note Personally I thought at the time--What a waste.... "They expressed frustration over the refusal by Ted or his "associates" to talk" I never thought they knew anything that could help these cases....because if they did,wouldn't they have given that out at the time the $100,000 reward was being offered?
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 17, 2014 5:05:56 GMT -5
Del,John said so many things to the Birmingham Police,that never took place in our conversations,this is some of it-BLK-01642-John said-Being a native of Birmingham,Michigan,I was approached this last February by (Mother of my child) and one Helen Dagner and accused of a serious crime committed in that city-some fifteen years ago. I acknowledged to the woman that I was aware of such a crime- told them of what I had heard and read about this incident fifteen years ago. Of course I denied any connection with it.Immediately, without justification, guilt-infliction reigned from the two women.They became so excited over this that a creative scenario started to reach my family and the Birmingham Police Department.Upon contacting the Birmingham Police, I explained to them the nature of the problem.. After four days of questioning and polygraph tests over a period of a month,Birmingham Police Chief Austin and Commander Studt concluded that I was clear- Note: None of the above ever took place,the Mother of Johns child and I never talked to John ever,at the same time about his involvement in the Occk Killings,he did talk to each of us about them,however the only time the two of us women ever discussed anything in his presents about the cases is the first day I went for coffee with them,which was also the first day I had met John,and he was asking what I knew about the Killings ,and at that time I knew nothing,and then for some reason ,only known to John,he blurted out that "he had cooked the chicken" Yes,John did tell me that Police Chief Austin did tell him-"that because he was a Home Town boy they would not let him get hung with this" However that I'm sure was just a good cop bad cop deal,trying to soften him up- --The fact is that IMO-Birmingham Police Chief Austin and Commander Studt concluded that John was the Oakland County Child Killer,However with all of their Investigation,they didn't have the silver bullet,so they could make and arrest,but they protected their information ,from other Police agency's,by telling them Johns Alibi was his Passport. All of their contact was on the Phone with other local agency,and the cops all believed them-after all they had spent so much time Investigating John...Well your going to be hearing a lot about this from me,in coming days,and you will be able to draw your own conclusions,because you are not bound by the "Thin Blue Line"
|
|