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Post by Helen Dagner on May 27, 2011 21:49:06 GMT -5
I still believe John fits these crimes perfectly and that includes his
AD stuff. How a bunch of pedophiles pulled this off is way beyond belief.
The way Lilly and Cody write like they are like the mafia and all
work together. From the phone company employees to the postal
service tampering with her mail. I guess they are all protecting themselves.
Very on touch from reality. Of course some people have been trying to find a
connection so here they come along and suggest it. I wonder if Lilly
tampered with her own mail and taped it up to look like it was broken
into. What is she suggesting anyway. That someone read her book
and put it back in the mail?
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 28, 2011 13:16:17 GMT -5
Lilly and her distortion of The real facts have continue- I guess it is an extension of her failed book-this is NO contest of who is right and wrong-We are talking about the Oakland County Child Killings -and your trying to connect your Fox Island and Cass Corridor stuff to the Occk-Just further proof-that she has not done her research Here is one of her post where she answers another person who is trying to connect all this stuff together-not because any of it is true-as it relates to the Occk cases-but she just wants to be a peace maker-THE CAPITAL WORDS ARE MINE_**-(Thank you Candy-couldn’t have said it better. I think that is part of what I have been trying to convey. Here’s a novel idea. Maybe we are all right. (NO WE ARE NOT ALL RIGHT-THIS IS NOT A god D----CONTEST-NO ONE HAS TO BE RIGHT OR WRONG-WE ARE INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH OF WHO KILLED THESE CHILDREN-AND THAT IS SOMETHING WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET FROM YOU OR YOUR GANG-BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO PROOF_WHAT YOU ARE OFFERING AS PROOF- IS FOX ISLAND REHASH THAT YOU GOT FROM HEARSAY-OH YA AND THE STUFF FROM BACK IN THE HOOD )
There is no denying all of these people were involved in raping kids or had been victims of these rapists. By nature of their sickness they were isolated and would have sought the company of their own kind. A pretty big but closed circle of ‘acquaintances.” Busch was busted as part of Fox Island/Frank Sheldon. Busch victimized Gunnels- turned him out. Gunnels, was also in the Cass, so too was Lamborgine. He threw parties for this “closed circle” out in the suburbs-away from the Cass...Hastings was Busch’s neighbor. I am going to go out on a limb here and ask a few questions.
Is it possible that Hastings was a victim? ( EVEN IF HE WAS A VICTIM-HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU GET KILLERS OUT OF SEX ACTS OF THE PEOPLE YOU HAVE MENTION FROM THE CASS OR FOX ISLAND?? YOU DON'T GET IT LILLY-EVEN WITH ALL THE SPIN YOUR GROUP PUTS ON THIS-YOU HAVE NO DEAD BODIES!!!) From what has been written about him, he certainly fit the profile of the classic case-a lonely kid, no friends, ostracized from the social class in which he lived. Is it possible that he fell into the first few people that paid any attention at all to him? (LILLY- ALTHOUGH JOHN WAS A LONER_HE WAS INTO READING -NOT JUST A FEW BOOKS-BUT THOUSANDS -DON'T YOU THINK THAT TOOK UP A LOT OF HIS TIME?)Predators have a way of singling out the “needy” kid-younger and a bit older ones as well. Once there, maybe John saw and heard things that gave him an inside edge to all of this?( LOL-I THINK JOHN HAD HIS INFO FIRST HAND-THAT IS WHY THESE CASES HAVE GONE UNSOLVED ALL THESE YEARS_IF ANY OF THOSE PERVERTS -KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THE OCCK THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD WHEN THE LARGE REWARDS WERE OFFER) He wouldn’t have been the first. Look at Gunnels and there were certainly more like him. It sure seems there was a pattern of forced control, emotional as well as physical.
I have never thought that H or Reasoning lied or told anything but the truth.(OH PU-LEASE-WE KNOW WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF ME-WE READ IT IN YOUR FAIRY TALE BOOK-) I believe they heard and saw exactly what they say they did. I just don’t believe they were being told the truth. At least not the way it all really went down. Now we know John didn’t tell the truth. The boys were tortuously bound and raped. These were not “kind killings” (AGAIN YOUR PROOF-IF YOU HAD TALKED TO ANY OF THE MEDICAL EXAMINERS YOU WOULD KNOW-THESE KIDS WERE NOT BOUND-AND THEY WERE NOT REPEATEDLY RAPED-THAT IS A STORY YOU GOT FROM THE DET.AND THEN CATHY PUT HER BIG SPIN ON IT~) as he suggested. So does he know something? No doubt-but was he the killer? Probably not. Could he have been haunted and obsessed and finally found someone to dump it on? Did he finally find someone who made him feel important enough to talk with and listen to him?
A young man victimized in that way would most likely be loath to admit it. In fact, Keeper’s brother said that there are a high percentage of men who will never tell of such things-no matter what. Maybe that’s the part that John left out and it would explain how he knew so much about the other things. Just a thought and if she doesn’t murder me over it, maybe we can bounce it around.
So who were all these people? I think it is safe to say they were all connected in one way or another. I think at the end of the day, the killer will be as the police said so many years ago,“your typical next door neighbor type.” Not some known pedophile with a long record. He flew under the radar.
Yup, I think all of us are right.-in one way or the other. None of us are wrong. We’ve closed a pretty impressive circle ourselves. I pray the police will look a little closer at it. YOU KNOW I"M NOT EVEN GOING TO SPEND ANY MORE TIME ON THIS TODAY-LILLY WHO IS CYBER-YOU ALL REMEMBER HER -HER CREDIBILITY IS BELOW A SNAKES BELLY..SHE WILL CONTINUE THIS-THERE IS NO HELP FOR HER OR HER GANG...AND NONE OF THEM WILL EVER COME UP WITH ANY PROOF THAT WILL BE RELEVANT TO THE OCCK CASES-BECAUSE THEY CAN NOT PULL THEM SELF OUT OF THE CASS CORIDOR!
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 29, 2011 6:12:30 GMT -5
Helen,Thanks for sharing all this stuff. I'm really stunned. I really hope this finally leads to the answers.
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 30, 2011 0:28:22 GMT -5
The book, Wolf in Sheep's clothing ....
Posted on February 24, 2008 at 07:35:32 PM by Helen Dagner
The book, Wolf in Sheep's clothing is still the only book that attempts to put together the events of the Oakland County Child Killings. The author, Tommy McIntyre was/is associated with Oakland University in Rochester, MI and was written in the later 80's. The author acknowledges that some information was changed slightly to protect sensitive information. While agreeably the most comprehensive attempt under one cover, the story is sewn together by incomplete information, suppositions and assumptions, and a lot of authorial license to fill in holes. The author states that the text of the book was reviewed and approved by Det. Robertson. That endorement apparently making the text correct. Unfortunately, this book has become a reference to OCCKphiles because it is the only book that exists in a factual form. I don't necessarily agree, but who am I? What I do offer are a few observations based on my own experience and knowledge which admittedly is not offical.Casual Observer
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 31, 2011 2:39:04 GMT -5
Re-Post-There is a man...who has been posting for many years on the Internet under an assortment of screen names-a few you will recognize-PIG HEAD-AKA Pembrook-AKA Grayfield-AKA Derby -I think he should be thoroughly Investigated-Not only in the Occk cases but in the John McKinney case...My reasons are...here we have a guy that claims to have been John McKinneys friend...yet I find no one who can support that...and I have really looked...nexts he said he worked for McKinney for about two weeks...no record can be found to clarify that either...He is totally obsessed with the Occk cases and with John McKinneys case...He takes his screen names from roads & streets in the areas of the cases....He attacks me on the Internet with most every post he makes..Nitpicking and taking out of context everything I say about the Oakland County Child Murders & John McKinney's...even though he has seen the factual documents-He will not answer emails from the Michigan Police -Nor Phone calls from the Michigan Cops...Nor messages left at his trailer from the cops...If you knock at his door...he does not answer...he peeks out of the curtains.....Online he asks a multitude of questions about these cases that the normal Oakland County resident,would not ask-he has posted in past years some info about these cases...that was never in the media...however now that I have called him down on this...he suddenly has with drawn from his Internet posting...yet he is on my site several times a day...and although this is not new...he has for years stalked me all over the Internet...what is different...is that he is not re-posting my info...now in the past two weeks I have been tracking down his life in Michigan...where he lived until 1979...and nothing he has ever posted about his life is true...I found 4 different High Schools he said he graduated from...yet the school records do not show-he even attended those schools...then he has posted his Military record as being a Marine and also as being a Viet Nam veteran who was in the army....and there is more....
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 31, 2011 22:49:08 GMT -5
The reason the Pedaphile suspect doesn't fit...Children were abducted that were not molested...Lets get real here what pervert is going to snatch kids at great risk of being caught...hold them for days on end...take more chances returning them to the area they lived...all with out molesting the kids...when that is what the sicko lives & breaths for...repeat Pedaphiles are so obsessed with fantasys of sexually assaulting children -it is all consuming...The autopsy showed that the children were not in great stress during their captivity...and common sense would tell you if they were eating regularly...they did not feel threatened.These kids were not stressed-not battered or sexually assaulted!
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 2, 2011 0:20:30 GMT -5
It is overwhelming. Keep in mind that CBB was always quickly sprung from jail by his daddy. Probation was all he ever got. Maybe he was in deeper nuts in November 1978 and was finally looking at jail time. I don't know anything about the guy's arrest record. I didn't know about the March 12 stuff until you found that Traverse City newspaper. The guy got around, that's for sure.
Mind blower is an understatement.
That photo of Tim--I had forgotten about that.
I don't remember anything about two people who moved Tim's body--I just knew about the 2 young guys who saw him and went to the house and banged on the door. (I still cannot believe they didn't get their names.) Who saw these people move Tim? How did they know Tim had been moved?
Also, the behavior of these two families is not simply family dysfunction--even by Bloomfield Village standards. God I wish the cops had leaned on John's family back in 1992. If leaned on, one of them would have f---ed up. Instead--they "get out of jail free card."
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 3, 2011 10:21:15 GMT -5
EnoughAlready
Bradenton, FL
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#5957
2 hrs ago
Ironically, quite a few "one time" suspects are also dead. Todd Warzecha, David Norberg, and Michael Dean Grant come to mind.
There are only two reasons that make sense as to why Lamborgine would keep his mouth shut. 1) He's afraid to talk which would imply the killer/s can reach him in Prison. Or 2) He really doesn't know anything and was afraid a poly would implicate him in other crimes. Lawson sang like a canary, if his information was any threat, wouldn't you think he would be dead by now too?
Is the cop you're thinking of the guy by the name of Marty? I don't really know anything about him.
Then you have the task force, Robertson, Tobin, Danto, Kriesse. Tobias..they are all dead too.
Gee, maybe LE should just sit on this new evidence for another 6 years (News of DNA broke in 2005!) and see how many more suspects or potential witnesses they can lose in the meantime. And they wonder why the families are so very fed up!
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 6, 2011 21:01:51 GMT -5
Helen what I notice with your videos is that Dr. Danto & Robert Robertson and the gang when
they describe who they think the killer may be like, they describe John to a tee. Why is that
and no one else has made a comment? They sure don't describe a pedophile type on
that radio show! In fact there are no hints at all so far of any of that. What has changed between
now and then? And now with your latest video showing an early picture of John and that sketch.
I spilled my drink on my keyboard when that came on the screen. I just can't get over the fact that
here is someone that confessed to you and here he is standing out so much on this crime as a suspect.
Doesn't 20 years impact anything? Matt
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 15, 2011 14:24:42 GMT -5
I think if Busch was an informant on the Fox ring as it says on Helen's site, then yes, but maybe only indirectly. If Busch really had Kristine in his car, really possessed film and photos from North Fox, then really rolled on them and his downstate yucko cronies there would be many links. I have no way of knowing what is and isn't true and who really knew what. If Gunnel's hair was on Kristine, yes. I am saying I think so, but I really don't know. I would say Mckinney is also related. I don't know all the connections. I think somebody wants it to be confusing. Busch was either a patsy in the know or a patsy in the dark, but he seems to have been somebody's scapegoat for something. If he was properly framed as the OCCK then his information would be less reliable regarding North Fox Island. It would also turn attention away from that big Federal case. I change my mind allot now. I almost feel guilty putting ideas out there, but I can't see Busch not being somehow involved if he had Kris in his car and Mark's picture on the wall. North Fox may have been all together a different crime, but Busch's involvement or evident involvement in both do provide a link. I also think John H at least thinks he is the killer. I am also curious, Helen, were you saying you think you saw that rope wall hanging in John's apartment? I am unclear on that and I am unclear on who is saying Busch squealed on North Fox? Is that something you got from a good source? I know you post what you think is credible, just wondering what your thoughts are. Cody, for me, it is all allot of info and I only read what I find online. In other words I have no good sources. I think many people were involved, but I don't know how. Someone will figure it out and we will all say oh yeah, now I see. That is my hope and I hope the parents and siblings get some closure and some answers, I do think it is solvable. Just Thinking
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 16, 2011 3:16:13 GMT -5
C-w-w...Grayfield-and many other screen names...So you like Renee's work...Well I dug these up out of many pm's from Her..Just so you could enjoy them...and see what a crazy she is-who knows nothing about the Occk cases...BUT LIKE YOU-WANTS TO WORK HER SELF ONTO THE CASE...
Renee commented (on August 7, 2007 11:18 PM):
Xxxx-"Hello Helen,
I am confused as to who you are.
I have been involved with this case since I was 8yrs old and I have never heard of you. Please explain ...
Thank you."////"Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
Why do you believe that?"////Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"I do not mean any dis-respect however, I am 38 now and still live in Berkley, MI. and I do have 1st hand knowledge of the on going case.
My sister knew one of those kids. My Dad worked with one of the parents.
We went door-to-door collecting funds in donated mobile oil cans to produce the literature for the "Kids Don't Go With Stranger's" campaign."/// Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"Are you referring to: Lamborgine?"////Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"Well, I will admit that I have read ALL of information and I am curious as to why you think you know the identity.
Some of your comments were disturbing to me because I am very close with the Berkley Police Dept.
I know Sgt. Detective Ray Anger who was crying to me on the phone just yesterday after our reflecting on the case."////From: Irish_Wishes
To: Helen Dagner
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"Of course ..... I apologize: Ren'ee X.Xxxxxxx"/// Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"I live in Berkley, Michigan.
At the time my family lived about 7 houses away from "Heartfields Bowling Alley" where "Kristies's mom worked and called the Berkley Police to report a missing child. Ray Anger was the officer to take the report. Once he arrived and say Kristie's mom out there, he went into shock he said. He knew Kristie also.
We lived 1 1/2 blocks away from where she was kidnapped: Berkley 7-Eleven (which both business are still here).
The necklace is an engraved crusifix from Kristies 1st Communion.
We had seminar's in Macomb County at the old "Wick's Furniture" store.
We distributed the literature, registered kids and showed a video provided by the Macomb County Sheriff's Dept. showing the raw police footage of every scene where their little bodies were found."////Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"Not to sure about what you have said in regards to that actual kidnapping location of Kristie. Witnesses have made statements in regards to seeing kristie buying candy in the store and talking to someone outside of the store. That was the last time she had been seen alive.
I don't understand your negative feelings in regards to Ray Anger.
He went above and beyond to strike a deal with a man (cannot state name) currently serving time in Jackson, MI .
Ray had told this person that Ray got the FBI to agree to relocate him to any prison of his choice and they were willing to give him a new identity with No Death Penalty if he would talk.
We'll this person (because I am Catholic and I am trying not to use bad words) still won't talk.
I am not with the Press or Police, I just happen to personally know a lot of Law Enforcement due to this terrible tragedy as well as my family having establishments in Berkley & Royal Oak. And I have lived in Berkley almost all of my life. I was born and raised her however, I did move to Clarkston for a short period in my 20's.
My mom owns The Blarney Stone Pub in Berkley, MI & her brother owns Duggan's Irish Pub in Royal Oak, MI.
I am currently working on improving the Amber Alerts and have submitted a proposal to Brooks Patterson who is helping me to get it up and running."///Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
"It was nice talking to you also.
We have a high respect for the Berkley, PD because they saved my mom's business due to a fire.
Can we have coffee sometime?
Ren'ee Xxxx///// From: Irish_Wishes
To: Helen Dagner
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:51 am
Subject: Re: Oakland County Child Killer
Ohh ,,, "lol
Guess that would be difficult huh.
I will keep you posted on the progress of my new Emergency Alert System because I do hope that it will be endosed nationwide.
Do you still need to talk to Ray? I can tell him to take your call and he will. I will be sitting in nhis office if that helps."///I GUESS THAT RE POST OF YOURS BACK FIRED IN YOUR FACE...LIKE ALL YOUR POSTS DO...I HOPE YOU CAN EVEN TELL-THAT THIS IS A PERSON..JUST LIKE YOU-WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE OCCK CASES..BUT PLEASE NOTE-HER PRETEN-"IN" WITH THE COPS...LOL...GOD WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE COME FROM?..YOU ALL NEED TO GET A LIFE AND STICK TO SOMETHING YOU KNOW...INSTEAD OF SPENDING ALL DAY POSTING THIS JUNK ALL OVER THE INTERNET...TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT YOUR SAYING IS TRUE...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 19, 2011 22:00:38 GMT -5
While the killings were occuring a Dr. Bruce L. Danto, a local psychiatrist got involved with the Oakland County Child Killer case. Danto began talking in interviews in the local newspapers about his thoughts and opinions on the killer. It's believed that the killer may have tried to establish contact with him some how with the dumping of the third confirmed victim. Kristine Mihelich's body had been found on the side of a road called Bruce Lane a theory was that the killer picked that road because Danto's name was Bruce L. Danto (L in this case being used as Lane). So then Danto began trying to talk to the killer in the papers to try to get him to turn himself in. Danto eventually received a letter from someone claiming to be the accomplice of the killer. It is thought that possibly either an accomplice, or maybe even the killer himself wrote this letter, possibly even as an attempt to toy with police. Below is the contents of the letter, exactly as it was written.
On the envelope was typed first this message
MOST VERY IMPORTANT MOST URGENT PLEASE.
Dr. Danto
I am dsperite and nearly gone crazy and havnt got no place left to turn. I am going to comit suicide if you cant help me. Please dont give up the killer to the police. You must help me as there is no one else I cant turn to. This is for real I know who the killer is, I live with him I am his slave. He whips me and beats me all the time. And he will kill me if he finds out that I have written this letter. I have been with him in his car when we go out looking for boys but I swear I have never never never been with him when he picks up the ones he killed But I amin it in it so deep I am just as juilty to the law as he is I stayed with them here here right here in our apartment during the day while he is working. That makes me just as guilty. And no one can hear them as they gagged all the time. You know he brings them in stuffed inclothes hamper no one here knows the differences. You keep saying Oakland county not true. He has delivery rout in Oakland and Birmingham places but we live in detroit. You want to know people in this building? Primps and hookers and f*gs, you name it. Like on Gremlin he had it sure Grimlin until last boy but no one stops him in Detroit. He junk it out in Ohio to never be found ever. I tell you what makes him do it it Vietnam, we there together, Frank and me, oh Frank not his real name I call him that here. Nam screw up your mindtoo. Tell you something else he killed lots of little kids then with medals for it. Burned them to death bombed them with napalm it's real becautiful there doc. He wants the rich people like people in Birmingham to suffer like all of us suffered to get nothing back for what we did for out country. Hes not a monster like you think he really loves children especially that little girl for 3 weeks not doing it because he hates childrens but doing it because he hates everybody else out there and this be his way to get even and get back at everybody.
But I cannot do it any more he says he wonts but I just know he is going to kill some more. I swear I had no idea no idea he going to kill that first little boy the one with blond colored hair. I shouldn8t ever never helped but trapped too late helped him stay uncaught, I am just as guilty as he is. I cant go on like this I fell I like to die.
I will turn him in if you will swearnto help me. I dont want any of reward I am so afraid if I turn him in I be killed or do forever to jail for what so something I didn8t want to or didn't start. If you be real doctor you must help me. If you promise and what really promise that you not punish me like you call it immuty I meeting with you this Sunday night, I swear, I swear I tell you all of it everything I have to tell someone have to tell someone. Please please please not print this in paper he Frank kill me. I am his slave and he owns me like whatever he wants almost killed me once. I be only one alive know it him. Nobody else know. I so scared all the time policeman come to door never happen. He say we never be caught but I am scared to die. I be guilty too. I not ge be call you araid police trace all your calls back to here. But if you will onluy please please help me help me and promise me not to go to jail in writing I tell you all of it everything everything and it all be over. I never never want it to be like this with little children dead. If you will help me please please. There be no toher hope. You tell me it be all right with code in sunday papers, this sunday, news freepress. You do like other letter you write on front page of papers this sunday, it be to say, Weather beuau say Trees Bloom in 3 weeks, I know you get my letter and understdna. It mean I can trust you. I set up meeting with you, no more little childrens die. Please help me please. I feel so bad like garbage not deserve to live any more. Maybe I kill self first must get out of this some way. Please help me.
I signed Allen
Shortly after the letter arrived Danto and the police replied to Allen in the local paper leaving a coded message for him, then Allen actually called Danto leaving a place and time. The phone call was actually recorded.
This is the transcript of the phone call.
I want (unintelligible) immunity. I want it by tomorrow night I mean tomorrow 9:00 (unintelligible). You be at Seven Mile and Woodward you know where Gas Station Lounge, you listen to me this only time I'm calling you (unintelligible). You want hang up, you hang up (unintelligible) but this is what I'm telling you (pause). You be Gas Station Lounge tomorrow night at 9:00 with letter from governor of Michigan giving me total immunity in return I give you polaroid pictures proving he kill them (pause). That's all I'm going to say (pause). You be there (pause). This is a bar (pause). Jesus (unintelligible). Gas Station Lounge (pause). You be there (long pause). You no bring police you be there by yourself (pause). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). No it's a bar you stu(unintelligible). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). You no bring police I prove he kill them. That's all I say.
Danto went to the Gas Station lounge just like Allen said, with a cop disguised as a customer with him. The Gas Station as it turned out was a local gay bar. The place was full of young hustlers who were often picked up by older gay men. There was also gay prostitutes out back behind the building. While Danto sat inside chatting with the bar tender, a man with brown hair stepped off the dance floor, and came up behind him and acted like he wanted to talk, but then turned away and went to the bathroom. After he came out, he stared at Danto some more, then he walked over to the cop and asked the cop if he'd like him to buy him a drink. The cop brushed the man off thinking he was just some gay guy trying to pick him up, not realizing that it may have been "Allen". The man then walked out of the bar, never to be seen again. Officially the police state that "Allen" never showed up that night, but they did believe, that that might have been him.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 20, 2011 22:41:51 GMT -5
Ms. Danger *I guess they should never of said never-2007-John was investigated more after this -than he was before*
There is no longer an open investigation into the Xxxxxxxx family and
the Oakland County Child Killings. This person was fully investigated
by very competent investigators and closed for numerous reasons and
documented facts. When we decided to rejuvenate the OCCK investigation
several years ago, we did take a second look, and spent a reasonable
amount of time combing over this particular suspect's case file and the
information contained therein. I also talked to the investigators who
actually worked on him. I concur with their findings and the matter
remains closed. All of the information regarding this particular
suspect is contained in a rather large binder in the case file room,
sitting along side of numerous other lengthy investigations.
You're not this first person, nor will you be the last, who disagrees
with the investigation into
"Their" suspect. I have literally dozens of people who swear their
suspect is the one who did these horrible crimes. (Some with even more
compelling information than yours). They too have what seems to be
mountains of information, thought out facts, or any other twist they may
have to fit their suspect, ( however all circumstantial), to support
their claims. Several very disgruntled tipsters just happen to be
retired law enforcement. They also get somewhat upset when I have to
tell them the same thing I've told you. One even went to the news media
with his dissatisfaction and complained that the State Police were not
considering his "Theory". When the media contacted me regarding his
information, and were shown what was done/documented, they agreed with
us and the matter remained closed.
However, if new information concerning Xxxxxxxx happens to surface,
please let us know. But to rehash this same information over and over,
year after year, only detracts from this investigation. You can't pound
square pegs into round holes.
Dets. Gray and Robertson
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 26, 2011 18:17:01 GMT -5
kevin rundel <krundel@twmi.rr.com> wrote:
Dear Helen,
I'm starting to feel like there is some hope in this world. I began researching the murder of a girl I knew from my old neighborhood. Her name was Kimberly Mcfarland. I think she was 19 when she died. Kim was working at a Sunoco gas station, right down the street from her home, on the late shift when her body was found. She was stabbed. There wasn't a story on the news. No one remebers a story in the paper. Just a story to hear or tell when you run into old friends from shcool or the neighborhood.
A few years later, an elderly couple that had just bought the local Arcade on Telegraph RD, were I used to send alot of my time when I was younger, was gunned downed and robbed. No suspects were ever caught. A few years after that I began going to AA. After some time in AA I've had the chance to talk to old friends from school and the neighborhood. One night I was helping to set up the meeting and make coffee I ran into someone from school named John. His cousin Angela was best friends with Kim Mcfarland. And I knew his other cousin Doug from school. Doug was a very handsom man at school. However, Doug had just passed away of a heroin overdoss. It seems Doug had feel far from the person he used to be in school. I told John I was sorry to hear about Doug. John didn't care. Doug was a jerk to him. They had stopped being friends and cousins al! ong time ago. It was at this time John asked me if I remembered a kid named Greg Pasco. I said yes. Gerg grew up with me in my neighborhood. We used to play football together. I hadn't seen or talked to him in years. John then told me that Greg was dead, he hung himself. I couldn't believe this. Greg was a sweet kid about 5ft tall, very funny and very likeable. My conversation with John ended shortly there after.
A few months later at the same AA meeting I ran into a girl from high school. Lori Moran. We began to talk about the people we knew and the people who died. I asked her if she knew Greg Pasco. Lori said yes. I said did you hear he died. She said yes, Do you want to know why? Yes I said. It turns out Greg was with a couple of friends of his one night and his friends went into the party store on Telegraph and began to cause trouble. One thing led to another and soon the old couple was dead and Greg and his friends went to a house in the neighborhood that was a hangout for bad kids. The house was owned by Lori's cousins the Trotters. Thats how she found out about the murders. I then asked her if she knew anything about the death of Kim Mcfarland. She said she did. She told me that Kims boyfriend showed up at Lori's house the night he killed k! im to ask for help from Lori's boyfrind Todd. Todd and Kim's boyfriend were in the same motorcycle club "The Warlocks". Todd helped clean Kims boyfriend and his car up and get rid of the knife. Sometime later Lori was raped by the "warlocks". Her boyfriend Todd thought it was her fault she had been raped and began molesting Lori's 12 year old daughter. Lori found out about the molestation and told the police and Todd is in jail today. From what I understand he has people keeping an eye on Lori so he can kill her when he gets out.
Anyway, I called the Redford Police Dept and told them what Lori told me. The detective in charge made numerous visits to Lori. He began asking about her story but then started hitting on her. He is married and his main concern was getting laid. This is where the investigation stops. There are no other developments in either case. This is not unlike the Redford police to act like this. 20 years ago a Redford man drowned his wife in the bathtub of their home. It took 20 years to arrest this man and convict him of killing his wife. 20 years. Police said there was a lack of evidence.
I recently found myself trying to find some new info on either case on the the internet. Thats when I found the post about OCCK and all the memories fron that started coming back to me. I read your post and had my doubts about you. Then I read a story about Todd Mathews and "tent girl" on a web site. It gave me hope that something can be done by anyone to solve these old crimes. If Todd believes you than I guess i do to. Now where do I go from here?
Tell next time
Kevin Rundel
----- Original Message -----2004
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Post by Annette on Jul 3, 2011 14:27:36 GMT -5
kevin rundel <krundel@twmi.rr.com> wrote: Dear Helen, I'm starting to feel like there is some hope in this world. I began researching the murder of a girl I knew from my old neighborhood. Her name was Kimberly Mcfarland. I think she was 19 when she died. Kim was working at a Sunoco gas station, right down the street from her home, on the late shift when her body was found. She was stabbed. There wasn't a story on the news. No one remebers a story in the paper. Just a story to hear or tell when you run into old friends from shcool or the neighborhood. A few years later, an elderly couple that had just bought the local Arcade on Telegraph RD, were I used to send alot of my time when I was younger, was gunned downed and robbed. No suspects were ever caught. A few years after that I began going to AA. After some time in AA I've had the chance to talk to old friends from school and the neighborhood. One night I was helping to set up the meeting and make coffee I ran into someone from school named John. His cousin Angela was best friends with Kim Mcfarland. And I knew his other cousin Doug from school. Doug was a very handsom man at school. However, Doug had just passed away of a heroin overdoss. It seems Doug had feel far from the person he used to be in school. I told John I was sorry to hear about Doug. John didn't care. Doug was a jerk to him. They had stopped being friends and cousins al! ong time ago. It was at this time John asked me if I remembered a kid named Greg Pasco. I said yes. Gerg grew up with me in my neighborhood. We used to play football together. I hadn't seen or talked to him in years. John then told me that Greg was dead, he hung himself. I couldn't believe this. Greg was a sweet kid about 5ft tall, very funny and very likeable. My conversation with John ended shortly there after. A few months later at the same AA meeting I ran into a girl from high school. Lori Moran. We began to talk about the people we knew and the people who died. I asked her if she knew Greg Pasco. Lori said yes. I said did you hear he died. She said yes, Do you want to know why? Yes I said. It turns out Greg was with a couple of friends of his one night and his friends went into the party store on Telegraph and began to cause trouble. One thing led to another and soon the old couple was dead and Greg and his friends went to a house in the neighborhood that was a hangout for bad kids. The house was owned by Lori's cousins the Trotters. Thats how she found out about the murders. I then asked her if she knew anything about the death of Kim Mcfarland. She said she did. She told me that Kims boyfriend showed up at Lori's house the night he killed k! im to ask for help from Lori's boyfrind Todd. Todd and Kim's boyfriend were in the same motorcycle club "The Warlocks". Todd helped clean Kims boyfriend and his car up and get rid of the knife. Sometime later Lori was raped by the "warlocks". Her boyfriend Todd thought it was her fault she had been raped and began molesting Lori's 12 year old daughter. Lori found out about the molestation and told the police and Todd is in jail today. From what I understand he has people keeping an eye on Lori so he can kill her when he gets out. Anyway, I called the Redford Police Dept and told them what Lori told me. The detective in charge made numerous visits to Lori. He began asking about her story but then started hitting on her. He is married and his main concern was getting laid. This is where the investigation stops. There are no other developments in either case. This is not unlike the Redford police to act like this. 20 years ago a Redford man drowned his wife in the bathtub of their home. It took 20 years to arrest this man and convict him of killing his wife. 20 years. Police said there was a lack of evidence. I recently found myself trying to find some new info on either case on the the internet. Thats when I found the post about OCCK and all the memories fron that started coming back to me. I read your post and had my doubts about you. Then I read a story about Todd Mathews and "tent girl" on a web site. It gave me hope that something can be done by anyone to solve these old crimes. If Todd believes you than I guess i do to. Now where do I go from here? Tell next time Kevin Rundel ----- Original Message -----2004 Kevin, I am kims cousin Annette and just wanted to let you know that she was on the news for a few nights and even on michigans most wanted and in the news paper...I agree about redford police,they screwed up the whole investagation...she was murdered in sept 1991 and they have yet to have cought the killer who we all know who it is..I was the last one to talk to her the night she was murdered,just minutes after hanging up she was found murdered at the shell gas station she was working at @ 8 mile and beech daily and she just lived like 5 houses away down the block..I encourage anyone who knows anything about this murder to go to redford police and the FBI as they as well was lookng into this case..so please call both and tell them what you know as she deserves to finally sleep in a peaceful enternal rest..she was such a great person and i miss her so much as we all do,I often think about her all these years later..she was my cousin but my best friend as well..so please take all the information you know to them and hopefully they will reopen the case..we had our hopes up a few years back like maybe 6-8 years ago they was calling the people they had talked to about her murder again so we thought the case was reopen but havent heard anymore,maybe what you have been told may help solve the case,you never know,so please look into it and with lots of hope and praying just maybe they can solve it..keep me posted please,thanks Annette |
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