Re: Oakland County prosecutor,Is Not Responsible

[Helen Dagner]

Before I go off on this Rant-I want everyone to know-That this is not just a post-a lot of thinking, has gone into what you will read here. First off,In my opinion the most significant act that has happen in the years of the Oakland County Child Murder Investigations,for me-was When The King Family went after and received the FOIA papers-and then shared them.( I OWE THEM A VERY BIG THANK YOU!!!..and were they and eye opener for me-For 20 plus years-I never knew what my taped conversations had been transcribed to- and I felt very comfortable with what I had said in my Interviews-and had no reason at all to believe-that -someone would manipulate them-I just thought they would be -just my true words-after all-these were the Police I had been talking to-Right?...So what went wrong-No I do not believe there was a conspiracy or that the cops were doing a cover-up and the reason I don't believe anything like that was going on-is because when I thought back-I know Don Studt worked very hard on the Investigation of John and I know he believed John was the Occk...But he could not get the silver bullet,and he was not going to allow anyone else to solve this case...if he still had a chance...and in Don Studts defense -I need to add-Don never thought I would ever see those papers-and look it took 20 years before I did-I even believe that Don and his assistant-Were not typing up the transcripts in a malice way-How ever it was done in a unprofessional manner and along the lines of a novel-and how did that effect this case from not being solved back in 92-93-and to present? Well,when other dept . read through the transcripts -they thought they were a joke and that I just had a Love affair with Police officers in general-not one of them even stopped to think or question ( why did Don and the Chief spend so much time and travel so many miles,so many times-If there was nothing to this?) So now comes in to play the worst tool that could ever be given to a cop-THE TELEPHONE!!! I understand from my Buddy Tobias who is now deceased,That he had never called Don to talk to him about me,but he knew others that had-So that is why he didn't-but his understanding was that I just wanted to snare a Detective -and was a cop groupie-and since I had not seen the FOIA papers -I just thought Jerry Tobias was blowing smoke-So we laugh about it and that was it...Tobias did ask me -If Don ever mention anything to me about him being craze for working on this case everyday-or said anything about his being a friend of Det. Angers and thinking that he to thought Norberg was the killer,as he didn't ever think Norberg was and that he had made that clear to Ray Anger-I told him no one was making fun of him at all-Now here comes that Tool-The Telephone -again!! He said that the reason Ray never put any value on my Information-was he had called Don and Don said-You were just trying to get the attention of the Alpena Lt.-and here comes that Telephone again!! Anger called the Alpena Lt. and when he got him on the phone-He asked Ray Skiba-(These were the first words out Det. Angers mouth) Hey is this Dagner Woman Nuts? Ray told me -he said he didn't think so and that I had given the APD and him ,many tips,that solved several crimes-then Ray Anger asked the Lt. If he could send him a copy of what he had on John and even though Skiba thought that Ray had already received Johns file from him-He sent him another as I had since given him Jills map that John drew-Now here comes the Telephone Again!!! Just after this when John had his second Polygraph In Alpena and Don called me at my Daughters to say John passed that one,however the fact that he was on the original Task Force Person of Interest List-says more than-the Polygraph- SO I said did you let Chief Anderson know,he said No,I guess I better call him. Here comes that Telephone Again-So he calls Anderson-and tells him He is not our guy--but ad's -You know that Ray and Helen have some kind of thing going,she told me that her self-(No Helen did not tell him that)-and if he was using that as and excuse for not giving out any more info on Johns Investigation,because there was no value to it-Then why did he and Chief Ostin beat it back to Birmingham,so they could go search the two homes?That doesn't end the story of the Telephone by a long shot-To be continued -and what I learned about The Biggest group of gossipers that I have ever known-The men of the THIN BLUE GOSSIP LINE~

[Helen Dagner]

I should Insert this-as we have a lot of new readers-I was married to a cop and my daughter was a Det. Sgt. and my Son-In-Law is a cop and all the people I love are cops and all the people I hate are cops-So I know a little more about cops than the average person-with that said-I would also like to say-that the behavior of the cops down state is really not the norm-my husband never treated people like they were 2nd class citizens-nor did my daughter-however that could be ,because the people they had to work with-were local people that they knew-and also because they were blessed,with some thing called good reasoning-I can remember 10 yrs after my husbands death-people were still telling me what a great guy he was and that they still mourned his death-and it has been 29yrs now-Now on to the Oakland County Sheriffs Department...and that TELEPHONE MONSTER~

[Helen Dagner]

I have to say that not all the Deputy's at the OCSD -Were stuck on their selves, In fact the ones I ac truly had working contact with were great -But, there is one guy there-that no amount of explaining could cover his action or words -he was never rued to me-but he happen to be the guy that answer the phone when people called in-and as soon as he heard the name Helen Dagner-He would turn into a monster-I had to end up calling the Sheriff to put and end to this,unfortunately, I wasn't able to save everyone from his unprofessional behavior,as I waited to long before I took action,one of his victims was Alpena Witness but there were also many more-However I have posted AW contact before-and haven't the others-He tried to tell AW-that there were no meetings at Big Boy between John and I-Yet we met every day and night-then he said anything I had to say was not accurate & that John came from to good a family to be involved with this-ect. ect.and also that John never drew any maps-Now remember that AW saw him draw maps on the placements at Big Boy- So I have no doubts that he is the one that screwed up my info at the Sheriffs dept-For a couple of reasons-One his wife was stalking me on every Occk site that I posted-In fact she even started her own Crime Site so she could harass me-and since he is the Deputy that original called me-after he read Todds site-I sent him Info a couple of times-However when I saw the FOIA Reports-My Info wasn't there-but the stuff that Detroit Dan must of sent him was-and he gave me credit for it-Intentional-and then said -on the TELEPHONE -to Don Studt-also from the FOIA reports-That none of my information matched,so they were not going to follow up on it-Had I know this 20 yrs ago,I could have corrected it then--but I had not a clue-Oh I knew the Deputy was an AH-but who thought he would do that with my info?? In A Serial Killer Case Of Four Children~

[Helen Dagner]

That Telephone! One day when Alpena Witness was at work,he received a call from Det.Grey,wanting to know all about what he saw at Big Boy...right away AW told him he did not want to talk as so many people were around him,and it was distracting, so could he stop in to the office and talk with him-I have no idea how Grey responded to this-However -AW could tell that he didn't want him to come in-so he started to answer his questions and it really wasn't the questions that,you would think a head of the Tasks Force would ask...In fact he really (Grey) wasn't all that interested-(Whats up with that?) He is the only live witness to someone doing Occk related stuff!! Well it didn't take me long to scoop that out. Here comes that Telephone-AGAIN-Grey had received a call from Studt,saying he had talked to this AW & his wife-for quite a while and found him very credible,so thought that Grey should contact him- Here comes that Telephone again!! Then Cory called me the same day and asked me if I thought the guy was on the up and up-I said well I never met him However I had exchanged emails with him-and he sound alright to me- Now I have to ask you this-Have you notice that no one ever leaves their office-to do a face to face Interview-Hey we are talking about a Serial Killer-that killed four of their local children!!! The case was unsolved!!!

[Helen Dagner]

In one of the above posts-I mention Det. Anger and his Telephone calling-I had and Interview with him and his partner up at the Alpena Big Boy-Just weeks before he had contacted The APD Lt How ever Anger spent most of it in the men's bathroom.When he was at the table-all he talked about was Norberg -and at that time-I did not even know who Norberg was---So I found that very boring-Then we did the drive by of Johns apartment and shoe box office so Ray could take photos of them--all while still talking bout Norberg-I gave Rays partner a note book of facts and sample of Johns hair-who knows where that ended up-as in later Telephone calls with Anger-he couldn't recall seeing it-and that always bother me-as one of the two items that I gave then-was a list of the last meals the kids were fed-and a list of several different cars -and they were my originals-I never thought to make a copy-after all-I gave this to the Police and weren't they suppose to take care of those items?-When I found out the DNA didn't match Norberg-I called Anger on the phone- I said-you were looking at the wrong guy-John did this-He said-Ok-But how are we going to prove it?-For some reason-I just didn't think that was my Job-He was in such a hurry to get off the phone-that he said-I was on my way out the door now to go over to the Sheriffs Dept -to go over the kids belongings-I said sure you were---The fact is-that I already knew that the kids belongings were in Lansing...lol--However when all is said and done-I know a lot of people who have had contact with Det. Anger who Absolutely hated the guy--and at one time I felt the same way--but now-I have walked in his shoes-and I can tell you he was justified in his actions with the public-I have never met so many down right Nasty Idiot-as I have met connected with the Occk cases-you want to just slam the door in their faces-Push them down some steps-Squirt them with a Big water pistol -Ignore them at all cost-because they are just plain crazy!