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Post by Helen Dagner on Mar 31, 2011 0:53:25 GMT -5
Tuesday, February 18, 2003
Victims young, and alone
By Mike Martindale / The Detroit News
SOUTHFIELD -- Mark Stebbins was the first known victim of the Oakland County child killer when his body was found in a Southfield parking lot Feb. 19, 1976.
But Dec. 22, 10 months later, the killer struck again. Jill Robinson, 12, of Royal Oak disappeared about 7:30 p.m. near Woodward, and her body was found on Dec. 26 along the shoulder of northbound Interstate 75 near Big Beaver in Troy.
On Jan. 7, 1977, a little over a week later, Kristine Mihelich, 10, of Berkley dropped out of sight after leaving a 7-Eleven store. She was found 19 days later on a residential lane near 13 Mile Road in Franklin.
The boy police believe was the killer's final victim, Timothy King, 11, of Birmingham was last seen March 16 outside a Maple Road drug store. His body was found six days later on Gill Road in Livonia.
"We had a countywide stop-and-frisk procedure going where vehicles were being stopped everywhere in Oakland County with the hope of finding the boy," said Jerry Tobias. "For the first time the killer disposed of a child's body outside of the county. And we never heard of him again.
"I often wonder if there was something done that day, someone who was stopped, someone who was interviewed, that made these killings stop."
Among the similarities linking the deaths:
* All four were alone and abducted from business areas.
* Two victims were abducted on Sunday afternoons, two on Wednesday evenings.
* All were held in captivity from three to 19 days.
* All appeared well-fed and were very clean as if bathed before or after their deaths.
* All were left along roadsides where they could be easily found.
Anyone with information on any of these deaths is asked to call the Oakland County Sheriff's Department at (248) 858-4960; Michigan State Police at (248) 380-1077; or Jerry Tobias at (248) 851-8607 or write to P.O. Box 503, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48303.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 1, 2011 1:08:56 GMT -5
UPDATE: January 27,2003: There is something wrong with this investigation- which is to say....that there is very much in the way of evidence that adds up, but authorites seem unable or unwilling to do the math and arrive at the one conclusion that makes sense... I have been involved in this case for 13 years now and as recently as yesterday Police are still sitting pat...on the same old investigateion...same suspects... Now I ask- if Norbergs DNA didn't match, after his body was exhumed...and he had no were to hold the children- and there are absolutly no matches to him and the crimes, then WHY? Are the cops not moving on...then we have another police dept...that still think Larry Allen Smith a convicted pedaphile, who is in the Az state prison until 2025 and has been there since 1986 for molesting young girls...must be the one...however his DNA did not match either....and can anyone tell me if they know of any case- anywhere-in which a pedaphile..who molested young girls-has ever kept them 4-19 days-bathed them-fed them-killed them-dumped them-but never had sex with them...so why are they not moving on??..and how is it possible for the authorities to contiue misinforming the press for over 25 years- yep I received a letter from a Detroit free press reporter, who has been on this story from day one and he was told -all the info John gave me was either-not true or was available in the news media- he however could not find it anywere- so if any person in authority can show me were the following was printed- I will concede/ Helen Dagner Kristine had orange-ish pink appliques on her slacks and was laid down with her jacket open---and how do I Know this to be fact---the police grilled me on this...then taped what I said...and then showed me her drop off photo...and guess what -It was exactly as John said...so if there was no other info...that in it self would be a CLUE...John also told me he picked her up by a bowling ally- What about the map's,like myself..I'm sure the readers of this site-will find it more than a little strange-that when I met John,it was 15 years after the killings,and not only was he able to draw extremely detailed maps of each drop off site-he also remembered all their names,ages,addresses,schools..ect.ect.--What goes far beyond the realms of strangeness or inprobability...is why would John hide a manicure-pedicure set in a shoe-box office..up behind a drawer on a ledge..when he had a large apt.,with not much more than his books in it...was it because it was his souvenier??...after all the children had been freshly manicured-the set was inside a 1970's brocade fabric case. ..and why would John tell me there was NO -blue gremlin...and why would John have a collection of books about latent prints..how to pass a polygraph-how to change your identity,with out leaving a paper trail--and many books on forensics...and how would he know Jill's book was inscribed?  -John had motive-means and opportunity-In checking a peretual calander,he was off work or unemployed on the dates of every pick up,murders,and drop off--How could he have a passport that showed he was out of the country on the date of one childs death?..because he had two of them-i saw them..and he told me one was fake-and then there were the letters,were he ordered the passport-and was going to go into the 2nd passport business. Then there is his alibi..his brother?I think they should ask ,the brother if he will take a polygraph ...or what about the sister,that called John before he went for the poly-and said-get out of there...before they find out the family secret...maybe she would take one too...about her knowledge of these events...or what about his mom--who told me she babysitted for John in the 70's...John had NO children at that time. |
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 3, 2011 14:00:20 GMT -5
Alleged victim of Richard Lawson takes stand by rumaj
February 4, 2008
The man allegedly molested as a boy by the convicted killer on trial in Wayne County Circuit Court testified today about his reported abuse.
The witness, now 38, described his life in southwest Detroit between 1980 and 1982 when he said Richard Lawson performed oral sex on him multiple times.
The 60-year-old, who is representing himself, is charged with five counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct.
"He used to take us skating, give us money," the witness said.
The Free Press does not identify sex crime victims.
He also identified a school portrait taken when he was 11 years old, wearing a suit he said Lawson bought for him.
On cross-examination, that first prosecution witness confirmed that Lawson took him and one of his brothers to a motel where he sexually molested him and took pictures.
The second witness, a 40-year-old who testified that he was molested by Lawson at the Kings Inn on I-94, also said Lawson gave him money.
During Lawson's questioning of him, the defendant asked whether the witness was aware that he was a law enforcement agent.
"I wouldn't believe you," the witness said.
Throughout the trial Lawson, who is currently serving a life sentence for a 1989 murder of his former boss in Livonia, has maintained that in the early '80s he was secretly working for the Detroit Police Deaprtment and a task force trying to crack the Oakland County child killer cases in the 1970s.
He has repeatedly explained that police officials are denying his involvement as a secret agent because that would indicate they were aware of these pedophiles.
The final witness before the lunch break was Lawson's girlfriend at the time of the alleged sexual assaults. Fay Gorley went out with him between 1979 and 1986, part of which time he lived with her on Clarkdale.
She testified that she recalled several of the young boys, and that she recalled Lawson had bought the suit for the first witness's class photo.
While she said that she never saw Lawson molest anyone, she knew that he gave them money and bought them gifts without their parents' knowledge.
She was the one who had provided police with that class picture from the early '80s.
She also said she had recognized his blacked-out image on a TV program discussing picking up children.
Eight men and six women comprise the jury and two alternates.
Earlier in the day, Wayne County prosecutor Patrick Muscat told jurors that he would prove that between 1980 and 1982 Lawson molested the boy.
“He took advantage of these poor young boys in this impoverished area,” Muscat said.
In Lawson’s rambling opening statement he explained that he was a secret agent of the Detroit Police Department, charged with infiltrating a pedophilia ring in the Cass Corridor.
He also said he helped investigate the notorious Oakland County child killings in the 1970s.
“Evidence will show I molested (name of boy), which I did,” Lawson said. “I will prove to you I was under the direction of the Detroit Police Department."
The trial will resume at 1:10 p.m. today.
rumaj
Tuesday, February 5, 2008
Detroit
Man claims immunity in rape
Defendant says his work with police to bust pedophile ring prevents prosecution.
DETROIT -- A convicted murderer representing himself in a pedophile trial presented his unusual defense to jurors Monday, admitting that he molested boys decades ago but claiming his status as a secret agent prevents prosecutors from charging him.
Richard Lawson, 61, who is serving life without parole for killing his boss in Livonia in 1989, faces five counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct on allegations he raped an 11-year-old in the 1980s. But Lawson -- who once claimed he knows the identity of the Oakland County Child Killer -- said he was working with the Detroit Police to break a ring of pedophiles on Cass Avenue at the time.
During opening arguments Monday, Lawson likened himself to a doctor giving medicine. He even had an 85-year-old volunteer associate minister at Cass United Methodist Church testify that he saw the letter of immunity.
"My motive was not to molest the child. My motive was to help the child," he said during opening arguments Monday morning before Judge Annette Jurkiewicz Berry.
Nonsense, prosecutors said. Assistant Prosecutor Patrick Muscat said Lawson roamed the notorious Detroit avenue with a purse filled with quarters to play video games and meet boys. Sgt. Garry Gray, who is leading the Oakland County Child Killer task force, testified Monday that even if Lawson had the letter it wouldn't have given him immunity or instructions that it was all right to molest a child. Further, they could not find any evidence that he worked for a task force.
"He mentioned that several times," Gray said. "We looked high and low. We found nothing and they kept very good records."
Lawson is charged with molesting his first victim, an 11-year-old boy, in summer 1976 when he was 30. By June 1977, he was considered an informant in the string of murders of Oakland children, according to court records.
His alleged victims testified Monday that Lawson provided money and other gifts such as skateboards and gym shoes.
"Pretty much whatever I wanted," one of the alleged victims, now 42, said of the gifts. He also testified to being molested on a pool table in a church basement when he was 12.
The Detroit News does not name alleged sex-crime victims.
The trial against Lawson is expected to conclude today. Lawson is expected to take the stand in his own defense. Former Police Chief Isaiah "Ike" McKinnon, who used Lawson as an informant during the time of the alleged incidents occurred, is also expected to testify.
rumaj
4 men testify in molestation trial
They recall abuse in the early 1980s
February 5, 2008
Four men testified Monday in Wayne County Circuit Court that Richard Lawson, who has connections to the notorious Oakland County child killer case, had sexually abused them in the early 1980s.
The 60-year-old, who is representing himself, is charged with five counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct. Last March, Ted Lamborgine, Lawson's alleged partner in a pedophilia ring who police say has information about the killings in the 1970s that terrorized Oakland County, pleaded guilty to 15 similar charges.
But Lawson is fighting the charges. He has maintained he helped the task force overseeing the Oakland County child killer cases and that he was a secret agent with the Detroit Police Department.
The first person to testify in the trial that started Monday -- and the alleged victim in all five counts -- identified himself in a photo, taken when he was 11, wearing a suit Lawson had bought him.
"He used to take us skating, give us money," the witness, now 38, said. He testified he didn't report the alleged abuse, because "I was scared."
The Free Press does not identify sex crime victims.
"They asked me if I ever had an encounter with you sexually and I was very embarrassed," the second witness, 40, said under questioning by Lawson, of his meeting with police decades later.
A third man, 42, said Lawson molested him four times, including once at Cass United Methodist Church. And the fourth witness, 40, explained how the defendant allegedly found his prey.
"He approached as I was playing" video games, he said. "He gave quarters. He'd come up, watch you play games, start a conversation."
Lawson's girlfriend at the time of the alleged assaults, Fay Goley-Gunn, testified she remembered several boys and the suit from the first witness' photo. She denied ever seeing Lawson molest anyone, but admitted knowing he gave children money and gifts.
And she testified that she'd recognized Lawson's blacked-out image on a TV program about luring children.
"He took advantage of these poor young boys in this impoverished area for his" sexual pleasure, Wayne County Assistant Prosecutor Patrick Muscat told the jury at the start of the trial.
Lawson -- currently serving a life sentence for an unrelated 1989 murder in Livonia -- sees it another way.
"Evidence will show I molested" one of the witnesses, "which I did," Lawson said in his rambling opening statement. "I will prove to you I was under the direction of the Detroit Police Department."
The trial is to resume at 8:45 a.m. today before Circuit Judge Annette Jurkiewicz-Berry
rumaj
Man found guilty of molesting boy in '80s
Ex-chief confirms he was informer
February 6, 2008
A Wayne County jury deliberated for about an hour Tuesday before it convicted a man -- already serving a life sentence for murder -- of molesting a boy in Detroit several decades ago.
Richard Lawson, 61, was convicted of five counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct.
Lawson, who claimed he was a secret informer for the Detroit Police Department at the time he molested the boy in the Cass Corridor area, was indeed paid by the department for information in the 1980s, former Police Chief Ike McKinnon testified Tuesday.
But McKinnon said that Lawson was not under the direction of the Police Department to molest children.
"You were good at what you did," McKinnon said to Lawson, who represented himself in the molestation case.
"You lived a different kind of lifestyle. There's no doubt" that you helped us arrest a number of people, McKinnon said.
McKinnon said he met Lawson in 1976 through the recommendation of a Michigan State Police sergeant. He said the sergeant told him Lawson knew about child pornography and child prostitution and would be useful to Detroit police.
On cross-examination, Wayne County Assistant Prosecutor Patrick Muscat asked McKinnon whether Lawson was given immunity to molest children.
"Absolutely not," McKinnon said.
Lawson molested the preteen boy in the 1970s and '80s as part of a pedophilia ring during that time.
Lawson said Monday and again Tuesday that he molested the boy, but said he did so under immunity from the Police Department.
He took the stand Tuesday on his own behalf -- against the advice of Sharon Clark Woodside, an attorney assigned to assist him.
"The reason why I did it was to prevent another hundred children from being molested," Lawson testified, adding that he needed to molest the boy to gain the trust of pedophiles who were preying on children in the Cass Corridor area.
Last March, Ted Lamborgine pleaded guilty to 15 similar molestation charges. Lamborgine was Lawson's alleged partner in a pedophilia ring who police say has information about the 1970s killings that terrorized Oakland County.
Lawson said that he has a document granting him immunity from prosecution but that it was misplaced
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 5, 2011 1:01:22 GMT -5
Grayfield - you chose to post concerning Helen's decision to allow a Chicago firm to review her material. A good move, we both agree. But, you couldn't stop short of including a slam ( NO ONE gets Helen's notes.) The firm suggested that there might be too much cop bashing, which you say you have proclaimed from the beginning. My question is, by what authority would Helen even begin to consider anything you say? You have done nothing in the way of helping this case, but to pontificate from the sidelines like you are omnipotent.
I applaud Helen for taking this step. I am further impressed at the integrity she shows by openly sharing this firm's assessment that there has been too much blame on LE. She could have chosen to leave that out, instead it is posted.
Good for you Helen.
JJ
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 6, 2011 2:11:19 GMT -5
Dear Helen and Judy--I had a great visit with my brothers, but it was very short and we were never alone. I had talked with Chris about everything and he was already basically aware of what has transpired since the three of us started communicating. He forgot the yearbooks (I knew it!), but had a friend who lives relatively close bring them over and she joined us for dinner. We said nothing in front of anyone--but because four of the seven of us had gone to Seaholm (and another grew up in that area), we all just looked and laughed at the yearbooks in the kitchen. I saw the candid photos of Mike Xxxxxxxxx, but there was a formal photo in one of the yearbooks as well. I didn't recognize him, but Chris did (Mark knew who he was, too, it turns out). Chris also recognized Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx, who was a year ahead of me (1976) (I am assuming this is the same Patty Xxxxxx I did not recognize her.
I ran off copies of all of our emails and gave them to Chris when he arrived. We went to bed about 1 a.m. and he said he didn't think he could really look at any of it with any clarity until after Thursday, after a huge work deadline he has. I included a list of questions, along with Judy's "questions" email. Judy, I gave him your information and he would definitely like to contact you. He said again to tell you how appreciative he is. I told him I would have him describe his life to you rather than me (the last decade had been so wonderful for him--he went through hell before that). He seems genuinely happy. His wife is so great--my Mom said "if I had to pick out a wife for Chris, I couldn't have done any better."
As I said, we couldn't talk alone, so Chris brought Mark up to speed by phone late today and then called me. Chris had read some of the emails and had recovered, I think, from his initial reluctance to look at them. I had more time to deal with this, and he was being innundated. However, when I spoke with him earlier this evening, we discussed how to approach this whole thing with Don. Before I go into that and forget about Mark, now that he has been made aware of what's up, I will ask him the same questions I gave to Chris. Both of my brothers are completely discrete--we would rather that my Dad know none of this right now.
Here's what we came up with: I will call Don tomorrow, tell him about Judy's letter of 3/11 and then email or fax it to him. Chris can vouch for you as a credible source. I will ask him to call back after he's read the letter and then ask if Chris and I can look at the files, because now that we've looked into this a little, it is really bugging us. Chris still lives in the area. As discussions about this progress, I will ask specifically to see the file relating to Xxxxxxxxx and for the notes of Dr. Danto (although we will want to see much more).
I will get back to you both if, and as soon as, my brothers have answers to any of your questions. It sounds like John is out of the killing business, but I still feel like time is of the essence because the guy has a bad heart (literally and figuratively).
I will also answer your recent emails individually after I send this one.
Here's something I think, for what it's worth. Of course, you would probably want to run it by the other families who have been in contact with you over the years. I think that if NO progress is made in these cases as the 30th anniversary draws closer that Helen should sell her story (for A LOT OF MONEY), AND a contract provision from whatever news outlet she sells it to that they will provide counsel for, and pay the expenses (and, if necessary, judgment) of any defamation action by John or his family. The bigger the news outlet, the better, because they will have more heavy-duty legal representation. I was laughing about the Fieger connection--I figured that was the "high power legal team" after Helen mentioned that the oldest sister worked for them. I later got Helen's email this weekend saying that Fieger wouldn't touch the case. I would go one further and tell you to sell the story (IF it ever comes to that) to whatever news outlet it is that sometimes uses him as a "talking head/legal consultant" on t.v. That way, even if he wanted to take the case, it would be a conflict of interest (and at a minimum a blow to his ego if he couldn't get the face time on t.v.). Plus, it sounds like the guy knows a defamation action in this case would be a loser (although I'm sure you already know that accusing someone of a crime, IF it is untrue, is "defamation per se" (easier to prove). Cathy
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 9, 2011 9:44:19 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 11:14:29 GMT -5
Slain kids' belongings under scrutiny
October 7, 2005
BY FRANK WITSIL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
The Michigan State Police crime lab is reexamining nearly 30-year-old evidence -- including clothing, a bicycle and a skateboard -- in hopes that modern technology will identify the person who killed four children in the 1970s and close one of Oakland County's most notorious unsolved cases.
"We have people who we're looking at," State Police Detective Sgt. Garry Gray said Thursday.
DNA samples from three potential suspects -- all of whom are dead -- have been sent to a crime lab for testing, Gray said. The samples will be compared with a hair found on one of the children and thought to belong to the killer. Results are expected in about six months.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 14, 2011 10:02:21 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 21, 2011 18:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 25, 2011 20:21:45 GMT -5
John..Did you recognize her as the daughter of your school instructor?..Is that how you got into the conversation ...when she said she was-upset with her mother and wanted to go see her Dad..and did you just happen to tell Jill ..you were going the same way..as you were-.Mr..Robinson .lived but a few min. from your place...and from what you told me..Jill willingly accepted the ride...and even though she had her bike..it was no problem for you..you just open the hatch back..and tossed it in...What I want to know John,is when did Jill tell you her favorite song was-Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds...was it when..you were cruising down Woodward?..And How did you end up buying her the tape...or did one of your Sib's pick it up for you..to give Jill for a Christmas present..After all you knew she wasn't going to be home for Christmas...so she wouldn't be having any presents from her family...but then neither would you-Right?..So John tell me...was it after she felt relaxed...and when she thought you would be taking her any min.to see her Dad...that Jill told you about her premonition..that some man was going to shoot her in the face...that you decided ,that you would?..You told me..Jill was shot in the face after death..that you wanted to toy with the Cop's so you were going to leave them a very big clue..so you shot Jill with a 12 gauge shotgun..a gift from your uncle..that had a barrel on that was famous...named after your family...but you know John...you shot her in the face-so it would alarm...and terrify all the family and friend's -that Jill had told about the Premonition...or was it to make the Dr.. she was seeing about this...to some how think he was responsible...well what ever the reason John...only a monster would shoot a child after -they had already killed her...and John I will want to talk about Jill again soon...as you know there are many things ..I haven't listed...that the public really should know...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 28, 2011 0:19:13 GMT -5
Site readers Questions~ Comments: "John's first girl friend, that he had hoped to marry, dumped him-because he was broke, with no prospects" Helen, this was around the time of Ted Bundy and all of his mess. The line at the top was taken from your account of what you and John shared while meeting together. It's also almost the same as what happened to Ted Bundy and a girl he was seeing early on in his life. Ted was said to have gotten in touch with her later on in his life only to woo her and adore her once again, but once she was smitten with him and actually wanted to marry him, seeing how he turned around his life and wasn't the loser she saw him to be, then Ted dumped her. It was his plan of revenge he had always hoped to do to her. My point, if you will, was there a chance John or someone was keeping up with Ted's case and news? Maybe reading a book/s about him at that time? What is the personality of John like? Also, people who kill and kill for need, unless John was not the one doing all of the killings alone, it's not so usual that they suddenly stop. Are there other killings that John should be associated with or looked into on his behalf? When John contacts you, what does he share with you? Not everything of course, but what is the mood of the conversations? Bitter? Remorse? Annoyed? A friend saying hello? The poor misunderstood child murderer? Does he threaten you? What is the communication like now between you and John? _________________ Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 7390 Location: Indy Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE_ TO ABOVE POST~ ....Yes John admired Ted Bundy...and he followed his activities..read all the books written about him...and did make a few comments about him...but then John had a great many books on other Serial killers...You asked about John's personality...you know...as I recall...he didn't really have one...he was soft spoken...moody...had a dark side...much of the time he was in some type of trance..usually brought on by the snow falling..were there other victims... ?? no legal proof...You asked about John and my relationship...boy that is a tough one...It changed often...one day I would hate him for the monster..he must be...the next day..I just didn't understand how this happen...what did he share with me...well we just kept going over the same things...he always answers my questions...but not always how I hope he will...actually it was very normal conversation...as for actual threats John has made toward me...was only If I put his name in a book ...he would sue me.... |
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 29, 2011 0:15:03 GMT -5
Thin Blue Line Impedes Solving Of Occk Cases This is just getting so outrageous with every new "suspect." So far we've had, among others, a guy who had a sex- slave dungeon in his house, two members of a pedophile ring (who may or may not have been involved in child porn), and an animal who beats and rapes young men and glues their eyes shut. Now how is that for a visual? ? I think someone out there still has info that could help, but that they decided it was o.k. to lay low because the killings stopped. It's not o.k.--the torture continues with each suspect that is trotted out. How much worse could it be? Outrageous and brutal kidnapping and killing of four innocent children, an investigation that for a variety of independent reasons was doomed from the start, and now a hit parade of animals who committed heinous crimes, but didn't have the brain power to pull this off....and Now we have The Topix gang with all their foolishness... |
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 1, 2011 0:13:06 GMT -5
(Hey, John H. and Chris Busch were previously questioned in this case but no one wants to talk about that. John does not and cannot deny that he was questioned in 1977, 1992 and 2008. Nor can he deny that he was asked for and provided a DNA sample to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation in February 2008. But you’re not going to read or hear a news report about that. Think Chris Busch was never questioned about the OCCK murders? Then check out an article in The Detroit News on February 22, 1977, “Oakland County link probed in sexual exploiting of boys,” written by Richard Willing. Chris Busch, Gregory Green and Douglas Bennett were arrested in Flint for sexual exploitation of an estimated 30 boys. “Oakland County Prosecutor L. Brooks Patterson confirmed today that information developed in the Flint investigation suggests that some of the victimized boys had been procured in Oakland County.” “Patterson emphasized that the cases are seemingly unrelated to the murder of Mark Stebbins, a 12-year-old Ferndale boy, sexually molested and then killed early last year.” “Oakland County investigators have interviewed two of the men arrested in Flint, have given them lie-detector tests and concluded they are not suspects in the Stebbins case.” February 22, 1977 was after Mark, Jill and Kristine had been abducted and murdered, but before Tim was abducted and murdered.)
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 2, 2011 0:11:07 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 8, 2011 22:04:42 GMT -5
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-John had 
