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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 0:54:27 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 26, 2014 0:29:38 GMT -5
Just Imagine The Discipline The Occk Had
Did The Occk??- While enduring childhood punishment and unfair discipline from his parents create an execute -the perfect plan -for his warped sense of justice? Was it fueled by the cruel mental abuse suffered at the hands of his extended family? His dedication to the mission Of showing them -he could do something and do it right -did it lead to the murders of four children? Did the meticulous attention to detail -allow him to not leave any forensic evidence at four abduction and drop off sites and keep his Identity -in the shadows for 37+ years? Has he committed the perfect Crimes? Now think about his motive-doesn't sound like a sexual predator to me...does it to you?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 26, 2014 1:09:42 GMT -5
I want to see the copies of John and Chris' Passports,something is not right. INTERNATIONAL JET SETTING ON DISHWASHERS MEAGER PAY? Both men were in their mid-twenties, underemployed (one a dish washer, one a food service manager), presumably unable to pay rent (both living in properties owned by their parents), but somehow able to get overseas. That sounds like a good place to ship somebody who is a problem, even if you have to pay the shipping fee! Go somewhere in Europe until the heat is off. However,Chris may have had his way paid for,but John sure didn't,he was supporting himself since he was 11years old----Why I want to see the Passports--There are no copies of either one of theirs in there Occk files-yet Big claims are being made-Now I know for a fact and can prove that John was not overseas during the Child Murders,I also know that no records could be found to state that he had been,so,it certainly couldn't be Johns Alibi-also the fact that he didn't whip one out during his 1977 or 1978 Interview,but yet he had two passports when I met him in 1991 in Alpena Michigan,he kept them on his body 24/7,who does that? He told me and the Mother of his child,that one was real and the other was fake-but many people used a second passport,so he thought he could make some money by selling extra passports--I saw the letter from the company,that he planed to work for--Here is the problem-Chris Busch' passport was not found when they search at his death scene,it was well known that Chris did produce his passport for the cops on several occasions and he always kept it in the same place,in fact on one occasion he had to tell a police officer where in his room they would find it...now we know John and his family members told many stories of where John said he went overseas,and none of their story's match,and in 1991,all of a sudden John is telling a different story,so did he just happen to get his hands on yet another passport,maybe in 1978?? There is a lot to this and I will have to show you documentation for a lot of what I'm questioning-So I will get back at this post soon--with the rest of the story!
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 26, 2014 23:52:27 GMT -5
I was a young child living in the area during the killings. Although I did not personally know any of the victims, the killer forever changed life as I knew it. Gone was the freedom to play outside, walk next door to my friends house, or even open the door to people I knew unless one of my parents were there.
Several years ago I looked up the case online. I was amazed at all the information I found, and shocked at all the details that were conflicting. Look up the dates of Mark Stebbins and you’ll find many inaccuracies, much of which are posted in the news articles. I began reading all the posts I could find including the old yahoo group, the site Cody so often mentions which was public back then, and Helen’s message board. Helen had quite a reputation, even then, so just as so many doubted her credibility here, I did as well. But what got to me is the consistency of her story and her conviction that her suspect was somehow involved. I decided to take a chance and quickly learned, just as I doubted Helen, she doubts anonymous internet posters as well…and with what she has been through, I could not blame her. We began to correspond through private messages and eventually emails. Over the past 10 years or so, I have gotten to know Helen quite well. She is as feisty as a Momma Bear defending her cubs when it comes to this case, she cares deeply about seeing it solved. If, in the end, her suspect isn’t guilty, she will simply be relieved to be able to put this all behind her. Take a step back and look at it from her perspective….what if someone told you, over a period of months, that he had killed 4 innocent children. Not only did he tell her he did it, he drew maps, gave details, told her how her did it, and why. It’s quite a burden for one lady to carry.
The evidence against John is all circumstantial and therein lays the problem. The amount of circumstantial evidence is astounding and there is enough of it, that it should be investigated and taken seriously. I have always thought that John protected himself by tossing in facts that simply were not true; to protect him self in the event Helen went to LE, which she did.
Reasoning witnessed one of the discussions at Big Boys. The maps were drawn on the back of a paper place mat that will support the Big Boy’s claim. It can be proven that both John and Helen were living in Alpena at the time. Reasoning has stated personally that LE has been contacted with that information.
There are witnesses who found Jill’s bike, not where the paper states it was found, but somewhere else, and then left it at the latter. LE is aware of them, and it matched Helen’s notes from where John states he left it.
There are witnesses who can place John at the American Legion Hall on the day that Mark Stebbins was last seen.
There are many things that were never made public, that John told Helen, and can be confirmed.
Now, with all that being said….do I think for sure that Helen’s suspect is guilty? I have no idea and we may never know. He certainly would not be the first to offer a false confession. However, I do believe Helen 100% that he “told her” he did it. Helen has maintained her story for 22+ years now. Xxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 28, 2014 0:01:32 GMT -5
It's just so sad these four beautiful kids never had the chance to grow up. But, what's even worse is the Monster who took their life still roams free! It is far past time for Michigan Law Enforcement to solve these murders. Here's a start for them. Try going back to Mark's case. Investigate each case, individually! If a suspect happens to... let's say, be at the ALH the day Mark disappeared, maybe take classes from Mr. Robinson, work near Jill's abduction site - maybe as a Santa for JC Penny (?) AND there was a witness who saw him at the Hunter Maple Pharmacy ... than maybe you should bring him in for questioning! It's really too bad the task force ignored Casual Observer's MIL, or this case could have...been over by now,Maybe?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 28, 2014 0:11:30 GMT -5
RAGES~RANTS & REVEALATIONS-FEEDBACK-OCCK-FEEDBACK Robert-Of all the discussions-that I had with this guy{John}-the talks about the children's clothing...what they were wearing at the time of their abductions.....well I just keep going back to the description of Kris's pants....there just is no one that could recall this with the accuracy that John did....when I found out -that in fact Kris had been wearing these cloths {I saw her drop off photo}...I was so puzzle by this-wondering why or how someone could remember this type of detail 15 yrs after the murders...I talked to a clinical psychologist and a neurologist...and they both said John had a Eidetic Memory-which is very-very rare...and they both said he had to of seen these clothing on Kris...as there is no way his memory could have picked up such detail and then it would turn out to actually-be accurate....keep in mind-that details of Kris's clothing were never made public-ever...until I posted them in my original Occk story in 1999
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