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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 6, 2012 5:26:23 GMT -5
Here's something else I found that was interesting. By 1980 Michigan State Police Lt. Joe Koenig was the sole full-time officer assigned to check out new tips in the OCCK case which still came in at the rate of 10 per week. An article in the March 16, 1980, Detroit News explained: "While emphasizing that the task force did 'one helluva job,' Koenig is seriously considering another review of 'high priority tips' by a special group of retired police officers." "'We're not being critical of work already done,' said Koenig. 'But maybe, just maybe they overlooked something because of all of the pressure.' . . . Koenig has a new theory--a long shot, he admits--on what happened to the murderer. 'What if the killer is from a very wealthy family,' he said. 'Suppose the parents discover their son is the killer and send him off to Europe for psychiatric treatment. The family name is spared, their son is receiving treatment, and they are sure no one else will be killed. They can live with that.'" This same article goes on to quote the late Dr. Bruce Danto, a criminal psychiatrist who worked closely with the task force. Danto believed "'the killer is alive, probably living somewhere in Oakland County. I think he's sitting on it . . . but he's not a suicide, he's not that generous. He's bright and knows how to protect himself. He knows how to survive.'" The article continues "Dr. Danto said he doubts the killers family sent him away for psychiatric treatment. 'I don't think he'd let anyone know he was the killer, not even his parents.'" [The Detroit News, 3-16-80]
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 7, 2012 4:12:16 GMT -5
Danto. Here are some observations based on a July 3, 1977 article about him in The Detroit News Sunday Magazine, as well as some hearsay (which I believe to be reliable and accurate). First of all, if I had to bet money, I would say that Danto was treating Chris Busch. Maybe John. Or, maybe a close family member of one of them. I can't imagine he would be involved in the actual crimes, but stranger things have happened I guess. As a psychiatrist, his knowledge of any crimes gained from a client would be protected by the doctor-patient privilege. Maybe he figured the next best thing was to reach out to his killer/client to get him to come forward by putting himself out there as participating in the investigation. Back then there were no requirements that a teacher, counselor, social worker, shrink, doctor, reveal to authorities the name of any person who they became aware sexually molested/raped a child and was an ongoing threat to society (which they all are, because they cannot stop themselves). So maybe he thinks he can get the killer to come forward if he communicates with him.
On the other hand, prior to these murders, Danto, a paid member of the staff at the Detroit Psychiatric Institute, had developed a fascination with the mind of violent criminals. According to the article, he had already authored six books and 44 articles dealing with forensic psychology. As of July 1977, he was close to completing the course at the Macomb County Police Academy. He claimed at that point to have interviewed more than 2,000 murderers, as well testified at trials regarding the mental state of defendants. Maybe the guy just thought he could help. He became well-known (if not well-respected) for his work in the OCCK investigation.
The blue van--I take it this is related to Jane's murder? Danto had a son who was 16 or so at the time. Again, not saying he was involved, but he could have had access to the van to lend it to someone.
The article describes Ferndale police as having asked Danto to come speak to a group of policemen from all of the surrounding cities, as well as medical examiners, after Mark Stebbin's murder. The article describes Ferndale PD Det. Lt. Patrick Sullivan as having asked Danto to speak to the group. No comments appear from Det. Sullivan. I understand that at this meeting, Danto described Mark's death as the work of a serial killer. He thought the killer's other victims included Jane Allen, Cynthia Cadieux and Sheila Shrock. We now know that the Cadieux and Shrock murders were solved and were committed by someone other than the OCCK. At this point I don't think any of the LE were thinking Mark's murder was the work of a serial killer. Because Jane Allen was thought to have been the victim of a motorcycle gang, I'm sure no one was thinking Jane and Mark's deaths were in any way related. So how in the hell does Danto come off saying Mark's murder is the work of a serial killer? Just a good guess based on all of his training?
People who interject themselves into these types of crimes are always viewed, at least for a time, with suspicion. I wonder how he established that his participation was in good faith.
The article describes the oft-repeated profile of the killer he offered at that meeting: the killer was re-enacting something that happened to him as a child; "possibly he was taken (or separated) from his family as a child, perhaps because his mother and father failed as parents, and by holding the children for days and even weeks he was replacing the victim's real parents--and trying to do a better job than they." By having sex with the children, the killer was possibly repeating what was done to him as a child, at home or in an institution. Danto is quoted as saying "We now know that sodomy is not uncommon in orphanages and foster homes. It may have happened to the killer." Further, the children were killed to spare them the sort of life the killer had led, as well as "to heap the ultimate humiliation on the ultimate wrongdoer," the children's parents, as a way to get back at his own parents.
The manikin deal. The article says this was proposed by Danto as a way to shock the killer into doing something that would draw attention to himself so he could be identified and arrested. Mark's funeral was open and funeral cards were distributed at the church and funeral home. A few days later one of these cards was found at the spot where Mark's body was found. Danto and many police believed a killer often returns to the scene of the crime and on the assumption that the killer left the card, "a capture plan was contrived by Danto." The article says: "A child-sized manikin was dressed in clothes just like Mark's. It was laid in exactly the spot where Mark's body was found, laid there with exactly the care Danto thinks the killer took." So, Danto proposed this deal and the cops went for it.
About Squirrel Road, Danto says he "studied the street maps, looking for a north-south road with a name that I might use as stimulation. An east-west road would have too many escape routes, and we didn't want to have him slip away if we got close to him. I hit on Squirrel Road. It's north and south. And it, years ago, was a favorite dumping ground for bodies."
So for my money, the guy was treating the killer or a close family member of the killer, but he certainly could have just wanted to assist using his general expertise. Maybe it was just so unheard of at the time to have a guy like Danto around a murder investigation that it just added a extra layer of suspicion on the guy. His ego and fame certainly benefitted, even if the crime remained unsolved.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 10, 2012 5:36:41 GMT -5
Helen, I now really believe that the missing S was in response to Bruce Danto’s suggestion that the killer drop the body on Squirrel Road. “Ok, Bruce Danto here’s your freakin’ “S” . Don’t tell me what to do”.. Therefore, he dropped Kristine’s body on “Bruce” Lane. I mean, “what are the odds”? Also, what are the odds John would include Dr. Danto’s house on his map he drew in Alpena? Why would he do this 14 years after the murders? There must have been some Hastings relationship with Danto, IMO. Don
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 10, 2012 5:41:26 GMT -5
Helen, Well, that’s encouraging to say the least. What took the freaking’ FBI so long to contact you? ?!!!!!! ?? Those maps of John's tell the whole story,it will be interesting. Matt
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 10, 2012 17:48:14 GMT -5
2002 -In memory of my friend Tribute to Danto -Name withheld
The Danto’s family were founding members of Temple Israel in Detroit. During the 1940s, Bruce taught religious school at Temple Israel. He later served on the board of trustees of the temple .
Bruce graduated from Wayne State University with three degrees: a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology in 1951, a Master’s in Social Work in 1953 and a Doctorate in Medicine in 1961.
Bruce began practicing psychiatry in 1965. In 1967, he founded the Suicide Prevention and Crisis Intervention Center in Detroit of which he was the director. Bruce was also a past president of the American Association of Suicidology.
In a national publication. the medical community named him as one of the top ten forensic psychiatrists in the Nation.
Bruce was an author and published 10 books and over 150 medical articles. He was an authority on terrorists, you might want to look at the book, Prime Target, it sold over Five Hundred Thousand copies.
During WWII, he served in the United States Army, and then reenlisted in the reserves in the late 60's and earned the rank of Lt Col. He served with the 101st Airborne Division "The Screaming Eagles" and served one tour in Viet Nam.
Bruce spent eight years in the 70s and early '80s working for the Wayne County Sheriffs' Departments in Michigan. He would investigate all manners of questionable deaths.
Bruce was an authority in the area of the criminal mind. Many law enforcement agencies would request his first hand assistance in helping solve high profile criminal cases such as the Jimmy Hoffa case and others. Bruce later went into private-practice and moved his offices to Fullerton, California. Both Bruce and Joan worked as a team Joan is a L.C.S.W for the past 35 years.
Lastly, his appearances on such shows as 20/20, Dan Rather, Geraldo, and numerous other talk shows, news cast and medical seminars around the world which made Bruce one of the leading authorities in his field..
Bruce was a big fan of Kirk Douglas. One day I went to see Bruce since I was in the area and noticed a new eagle statue he had purchased. I told him' do you know that Kirk Douglas was born on Eagle street?' Bruce said 'No I didn't know that,' and then he started talking about Spartacus the movie.
He knew all about the movie and told me that it was one of his all time favorite movie. We also talked about Kirk Douglas finding his Jewish faith again. Bruce told me that he had read the book "The Ragman's Son" and found it to be very interesting. During the conversation Bruce said he admired Douglas and respected him and his dedication to the Jewish community.
I remember when Bruce and Joan went to Israel. Bruce told me all about the trip and shared some of the incredible experiences with me. Bruce has a brother named Arthur C. Danto Professor of Philosophy at Columbia University.
In March of 1998 I called Bruce on the phone and he told me that he had a bad cold but had to go out of town for a week on a case. When he came home from his trip, he checked himself into the hospital, and three days later he passed away on March 21, 1998 from cancer.
Bruce was my true friend who helped me realize that money, power, and materialistic things were nice but there was other things in life that are more important. The most important, was my faith, health, family and friends.
There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about my friend.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 12, 2012 0:01:51 GMT -5
Re-Post-I have noticed C-W-W's absence. I have been checking Topix fairly regularly, even though it makes me ill. Here's what still bothers me about C-W-W (aside from the obvious)--he has called himself by the names Mohegan, Derby and Grayfield (Graefield), all B'ham streets that have some relevance. Derby turns into Mohegan on the other side of Adams, which is near Hunter-Maple. Graefield is a street right off of Derby in the Pembroke Park area--and just on the other side of the railroad tracks from Tim's house. Also, his many, many references to John McKinney's murder (which I still think is related). Then there was his avatar on Topix for a while which was a fu-c-king photo of a Michigan license plate from 1976/1977. I don't care if that was the license plate from his favorite car. It is f-u-ck-ing weird, given all of the circumstances. As for Charles--this really makes me think that Danto was treating his brother. A Bloomfield Hills family/guy goes to a Bloomfield Hills shrink (who has a Bloomfield Hills attorney, etc., etc.). Chris was a big-time molester, whether there are any police files left anywhere that can prove that or not. He might have been ordered by a judge to get help, or the family could have taken this step as a way to argue that he was receiving treatment and should not be considered a risk. Christ, he could have been treating Charles or family members of Chris or John who tell Danto of their suspicions or knowledge, knowing it is protected by doctor-patient privilege. He's reading a bunch because he is freaking that somehow the privilege has sprung a leak or that someone can find one. C-W-W is right around the same age as Charles and if he lived on Derby or Graefield, they lived within a short distance of each other. His use of those street names while posting around the internet is certainly interesting. Who the f-u-ck knows. I would love to read the screen play to see why the art dealer gets killed. Probably two reasons: (1) he either counseled the killer or knew something he shouldn't for whatever reason; and (2) to send a message to any other people out there who might talk (and I am talking family members, others in suburban Detroit, not cop informants in downtown Detroit). Do you know why the informant read the screen play? Seven kids--I will have to give that one some thought.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 13, 2012 0:22:15 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 13, 2012 0:48:33 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 13, 2012 22:54:48 GMT -5
Hi Helen,
I just read the Danto letter from Allen on your site. Although a Viet Nam veteran, Allen claims to be beaten and whipped by fellow vet Frank??? Give me a break. Isn’t Allen a big boy and free to leave? There are too many sounds of desperation and intentionally misspelled words within the letter. It may have been written to throw police off from the real killer or someone (possibly the real killer) playing games with Danto. Since Kristen’s body was dumped off on Bruce Lane, it could very well have been written by the killer. However, aren’t there some who think Danto wrote this letter himself?
Where is the actual letter now? If available, can they get fingerprints off of it?
Greg
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 15, 2012 2:52:29 GMT -5
From The Internet~Another View~The 1970s were a different time; everybody had vibes, man, and with Robert Ressler and his crew cooking up magic in the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit there was a much closer corollary between psychiatry and criminology than would have been concievable to the fact-driven flatfoots of yesteryear. Enter into the OCCK case Dr. Bruce L. Danto. Dr. Danto, a well-regarded forensic psychiatrist, had been interviewed in the media regarding the child killer’s crimes, and when Kristine Mihelich’s body was dumped near Bruce Lane in rural Franklin Village the Doctor became convinced the killer was trying to communicate with him. (Bruce Lane, Dr. Bruce L.—get it? Okay; did I mention the 1970s were a different time?) Dr. Danto believed the OCCK was prompted to kill by snowfall, or the forecast thereof: “Maybe his father beat him in wintertime for not shoveling the walk and he’s trying to get back at him,” the Doctor opined. Hoping to direct the killer’s actions Dr. Danto referred to the killer’s child abduction technique in the press as akin to that of “a squirrel picking up nuts in wintertime.” Believing the Babysitter would seize upon this reference and dump his next victim on Squirrel Road in nearby Auburn Hills, the police conducted a fruitless stakeout of the area. Undaunted by the ignominious failure of his bushy-tailed rodent ploy, Dr. Danto wrote an open letter to the OCCK printed in The Detroit News, urging the killer to turn himself in as his inevitable capture was nigh. This missive engendered a response from a man who claimed to be the Oakland County child killer’s roommate. Calling himself Allen, the writer alleged that the Babysitter had been twisted by his experiences as a soldier in Viet Nam and purposely chose to murder children from wealthy areas to punish the ruling class for the horrors of war. (The precise role anal penetration of male victims played in the killer’s anti-war campaign was a topic left unexplored.) After much back and forth Allen agreed to meet Dr. Danto at a local gay bar called The Pony Cart; from the description of the incident in seminal OCCK text Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing by Tommy McIntire, Allen’s choice of venue scandalized law enforcement—apparently gay bars were quite a novelty at the time. Sadly, much like a thwarted suitor Dr. Danto arrived at The Pony Cart with high hopes but was bitterly chagrined when Allen failed to materialize, thus rendering Dr. Danto’s success rate in the OCCK investigation somewhere in the arid wasteland between absolute zero and nil. And thus stood roommate Allen’s involvement in the OCCK case for more than three decades; unbelievably, however, Allen’s specter was recently revived by the lawsuit filed earlier this summer on behalf of Kristine Mihelich’s mother (discussed in a previous blog entry). According to The Detroit Free Press the phantom source who prompted the filing had previously contacted police regarding Allen’s correspondence with Dr. Danto, specifically inquiring about the originating postmark and whether the letter had been typed or hand-written. This leads me to believe that Allen (along with Satanists and a Wiccan cult) plays a role in the phantom source’s theory of the OCCK crimes. Although I find the phantom source’s allegations risible I must admit I’d be tickled if Dr. Danto’s involvement and theories regarding the OCCK case were vindicated; like a squirrel picking up nuts in wintertime I collect pithy true crime quotes, and “Maybe his father beat him in wintertime for not shoveling the walk,” is a keeper.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 16, 2012 22:11:35 GMT -5
Shortly after the letter arrived Danto and the police replied to Allen in the local paper leaving a coded message for him, then Allen actually called Danto leaving a place and time. The phone call was actually recorded.
This is the transcript of the phone call.
I want (unintelligible) immunity. I want it by tomorrow night I mean tomorrow 9:00 (unintelligible). You be at Seven Mile and Woodward you know where Gas Station Lounge, you listen to me this only time I'm calling you (unintelligible). You want hang up, you hang up (unintelligible) but this is what I'm telling you (pause). You be Gas Station Lounge tomorrow night at 9:00 with letter from governor of Michigan giving me total immunity in return I give you polaroid pictures proving he kill them (pause). That's all I'm going to say (pause). You be there (pause). This is a bar (pause). Jesus (unintelligible). Gas Station Lounge (pause). You be there (long pause). You no bring police you be there by yourself (pause). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). No it's a bar you stu(unintelligible). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). You no bring police I prove he kill them. That's all I say.
Danto went to the Gas Station lounge just like Allen said, with a cop disguised as a customer with him. The Gas Station as it turned out was a local gay bar. The place was full of young hustlers who were often picked up by older gay men. There was also gay prostitutes out back behind the building. While Danto sat inside chatting with the bar tender, a man with brown hair stepped off the dance floor, and came up behind him and acted like he wanted to talk, but then turned away and went to the bathroom. After he came out, he stared at Danto some more, then he walked over to the cop and asked the cop if he'd like him to buy him a drink. The cop brushed the man off thinking he was just some gay guy trying to pick him up, not realizing that it may have been "Allen". The man then walked out of the bar, never to be seen again. Officially the police state that "Allen" never showed up that night, but they did believe, that that might have been him.[/quote][/quote]
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 18, 2012 2:33:03 GMT -5
Who said this? Danto or Allen or John~You tell me it be all right with code in Sunday papers, this Sunday, news freepress. You do like other letter you write on front page of papers this Sunday, it be to say, Weather beuau say Trees to Bloom in 3 weeks
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 18, 2012 23:40:36 GMT -5
Not only did Danto call Mark Stebbins Murderer a Serial Killer - Two really weird things stand out. First, the guy went to the Ferndale PD and offered his services as well as his belief that Mark's murder was the work of a serial killer. Well, if Mark was the first victim, why would he make such a statement?-now keep in mind that he stated this in news article-at the time of Marks death-since Mark was the first of the four Oakland County Children Murdered-many LE wondered how he came up with that? And why he came up with this-The manikin deal. The article says this was proposed by Danto as a way to shock the killer into doing something that would draw attention to himself so he could be identified and arrested. Mark's funeral was open and funeral cards were distributed at the church and funeral home. A few days later one of these cards was found at the spot where Mark's body was found. Danto and many police believed a killer often returns to the scene of the crime and on the assumption that the killer left the card, "a capture plan was contrived by Danto." The article says: "A child-sized manikin was dressed in clothes just like Mark's. It was laid in exactly the spot where Mark's body was found, laid there with exactly the care Danto thinks the killer took." So, Danto proposed this deal and the cops went for it. John saw this manikin laid out and described the clothes on it -now how did John know where to look? When you can not even find one Police Officer alive that ever saw the manikin laid out-Then there is the Picture John Drew of Mark laid out by the dumpster-in exactly the position he was found-Will have more on this-when we get to Johns Story~Note-*** Spreen's comments about Mark Stebbin's case: "'Although the State Police maintain two relatively close crime labs and the Oakland County Sheriff's Department also has an excellent crime lab available, none were called to process the scene. By the time the investigator from the Oakland County Medical Examiner's Office had arrived, the body had been removed to the Southfield Police Department. When the body finally arrived at the morgue, it was devoid of all clothes. . . . No one really knows what might have been found at the scene had proper crime scene procedures been followed and a crime lab present.'"
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 20, 2012 2:01:16 GMT -5
I do not think many will understand all of this,However when we get to Dantos apartment that he had in Detroit away from his home in Birmingham...it will be come clearer~as will his involvement with McKinney and his Gallery~
Along other lines, here are a few things I found about people who contacted Danto--I know you've seen these, but they are interesting in the context of someone "who knew" making contact:
March 28, 1977 Detroit News:
"Oakland County psychiatrist Dr. Bruce Danto feels the killer of young Timothy King may have been among the callers who have contacted him in response to his open letter to the killer printed in Sunday's News. . . . One [of the calls] was a 'very short message that could have been from the killer.' He declined to discuss details of the call. Two more calls he considered good leads WERE FROM PEOPLE WHO DR. DANTO SAID HE FELT MIGHT KNOW THE KILLER."
On page 5A, same date:
"Dr. Bruce Danto, face flushed, gingerly replaced the telephone receiver and said, 'That was a hot one.' Until 2:18 p.m. Sunday, he had handled more than 50 calls in a coolly professional manner. This one was different. 'It was a voice filled with a certain note of menace and determination,' Dr. Danto said, 'Like a top sergeant giving an order.' According to Dr. Danto, the caller said: 'The article was wrong. You better hope and pray it doesn't snow anymore.' The 'article' referred to was an open letter from Dr. Danto to the killer of Timothy King . . . [So this more threatening call came in at 2:18 p.m. on Sunday, March 27] . . . Dr. Danto said the voice seemed that of 'a man in his late 20's or early 30's. There's no way we can place a specific identity on the caller because there was nothing other than these two sentences.'
Sunday, September 11, 1977 Detroit News:
"A letter to Allen
In connection with the slaying last March of Oakland County's Timothy King, The News 'Secret Witness' program has been asked to publish the following letter. It has meaning only to the principals involved.
Other 'Allen,
The trees have already been in bloom for some time and I have been waiting for you to recontact me, but have heard nothing from you.
I disappointed you the last time, but I didn't understand the directions that well --I'm sorry!
I'm concerned, Allen, I know you want and need help, and I am still in a position to help you. I have the letter you requested in my possession.
You must trust me. It's important--for the kids, the community and your own salvation.
I've tried to maintain confidentiality but time is running out. You must do something positive to help yourself.
Please don't force me to turn my file over to police. Please contact me (signed) Your friend'"
Other thoughts--
I think I remember you mentioning (or maybe posting?) something about how it was hard to locate McKinney's family and that you had heard they wanted nothing to do with him. The news articles make it sound like he lived with his wife and kids in Clawson--was a divorce in progress?
Article from your site (must be 9/22 or 23//77, day or two after the murder) says that police had ruled out robbery as a motive. Further, that McKinney was scheduled to attend a Detroit Art Dealers Association meeting Monday evening in Southfield, but never showed up. [Lt. Mel] Squire said MRS. MCKINNEY DIDN'T REPORT HER HUSBAND MISSING MONDAY NIGHT BECAUSE HE 'OFTEN SPENT THE NIGHT WORKING AT THE GALLERY.'"
Another article from your site, Royal Oak Daily Tribune, 11/14/77:
"Life-Style-- According to sources close to the investigation, Mr. McKinney's life-style is the most confusing aspect in the search for his killer. His personality showed at least three sides. There was Mr. McKinney, the minister and chaplain who told the Daily Tribune in a 1976 interview of his concern for the elderly. 'The elderly have less time on earth than you or me,' he said. 'They need love.' Those who knew him in his ministerial role remember him as 'soft spoken,' 'a friend to everyone,' and someone 'who just couldn't give enough of himself to those less fortunate.' Persons who knew Mr. McKinney as an art dealer remember him as a respected professional specializing in contemporary art, picture framing and restoration.
But it's the third aspect of Mr. McKinney's lifestyle which baffles police. A counselor, Mr. McKinney's work often took him to areas of Detroit where he met with what some investigators call 'troubled individuals.' Sources acknowledge THAT THIS PART OF MCKINNEY'S LIFE REVEALS ASSOCIATIONS AND FRIENDSHIPS INCONSISTENT WITH HIS PUBLIC IMAGE. Investigators are concentrating in this area.
Slain on Monday when the gallery normally is closed has led investigators to speculate that Mr. McKinney knew his killer. There was no evidence of forced entry indicating that he opened the door for the person who killed him. Operating on the assumption that Mr. McKinney recognized or knew his killer, investigators have interviewed his known associates and friends. Many have been cleared through polygraph examinations. But these are mostly professional and philanthropic acquaintances. Police are turning more toward private acquaintances in hopes of shedding more light on the slaying."
As noted on your site months ago, maybe there was a fourth aspect only very few people knew about.
Another total long-shot, did this reporter hear any weird, unsubstantiated stuff as he was putting together this story? If he's still around--John A. Basch, Royal Oak Daily Tribune in November of 1977.
Finally, as long as I am spinning this stuff, one of the other long- standing rumors was that the mob or a vigilante-type "took care of" the OCCK. McKinney was shot once in the head and police ruled out robbery as a motive. A relatively "clean" killing. Of course there are other motives-jealous husband, jealous lover, screwed-over business partner.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 22, 2012 4:12:32 GMT -5
Will Continue after the Holidays...as we don't want any readers who are following this thread-to miss anything....
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