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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 1:06:07 GMT -5
Next the rumor was-Chris Busch was tying boys up in the neighborhood and having sex with them. He somehow managed to stay below the radar. In some cases, Busch's mother allegedly paid-off victims to avoid having them file charges or pursue prosecution. He had some pending child molest stuff in the court system after Tim's murder. These charges were not all in Oakland County. He retained an attorney (more like Daddy Warbucks did), who arranged to have him take a private polygraph. Because of some strange stuff Busch said in the pre-polygraph interview (including that he had been polygraphed in the OCCK case and passed it), the polygraph er wisely decided not to polygraph Busch. During this per-polygraph interview, however, Busch allegedly admitted to participating in the OCCK killings. This was of course protected by attorney-client privilege b/c the polygraph er had been hired by Busch's attorney. NONE OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION CAN OR WAS EVER PROVEN -NOT ONE NEIGHBOR SAW ANY BOYS TIED UP -IN FACT AT THAT TIME THE BUSH'S WERE SO SHORT -THAT NO ONE WOULD HAVE TRIED TO GET AWAY WITH AND ACT LIKE IS SUGGESTED-NO ONE HAS EVER SHOWN PROOF OF ANYONE PAYING OFF OR TRYING TO PAY OFF VICTIMS OF BUSCH'- CHRIS DID NOT ALWAYS STAY AT HIS PARENTS HOME-WHEN HE DID-THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENT THAT ANYONE STAYED THERE WITH HIM _ There is a lot more to the above info-however I'm using it in My cover all story about the Occk-To be continued in next post
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 1:10:55 GMT -5
-Another Rumor- Busch would molest boys in his parents' home--they were often in Europe for weeks at a time on GM business.
Chris Busch was a big, big-time child molester and liked boys. NOTE NOW THIS WEEK-THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE-THAT BUSCH ALSO LIKE GIRLS--THAT IS TO COVER-THE BOY -GIRL-THEORY- That no one can wrap there head a round--But We will clear that all up for you--
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 1:40:19 GMT -5
cloakdagner.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=comments&action=display&thread=3182 Child killer case now a battle in Oakland County's political arena Cooper points to her 28 years as a judge and law professor, 97% conviction rate and 99% success rate in the Court of Appeals in the last four years and nearly universal support from law enforcement organizations in the county as reasons why she should be re-elected.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 1:45:38 GMT -5
"What you have here is a panicky candidate up for re-election. In this case alone, she has managed to alienate almost everybody.Marney Rich Keenan-Why does there always have to be a media source that thinks they know it all-when it is convenient for them-Trust me Marney-If Mrs Cooper does not win re election-it will not be because of the Kings or BOB or The rest of the back stabbers-It will be because every one voted for Romney and didn't split there ticket--Why would anyone want to get rid of a prosecutor who in fact is doing the right thing in the OCCK cases- How do you think her record can reflex a percentage like this- 97% conviction rate and 99% success rate in the Court of Appeals in the last four years and nearly universal support from law enforcement organizations in the county as reasons why she should be re-elected. -Because she knows what she is doing-she is protecting this case -so that the families will see justice-and you my dear -are just trying to be a friend to all-I thought maybe you would perk up after all your false Info on Busch and then the story on the college gang-who didn't know crap-You can not change Fact-no matter how sweetly you do it...Facts are Facts-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 19:49:25 GMT -5
Helen it appears that Bob has claimed that Jill's Bike was found near Tiny Tims. Base on your video this is not where the newspaper claims it was found. Base on Spidey's claims it does not put it near Tiny Tim's either but more like Jill's path on the way home from Tiny Tims. So what gives here? Is Bob pulling more bogus crap? Don ....*.NOTE---lol-Where did you see that?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 20:01:39 GMT -5
Helen, The clipped audio that you had a link for recently. Bob states that Jill's bike was found near Tiny Tims. DR *NOTE ~~~ WELL DR -HE IS WRONG ! I BET THAT SURPRISES YOU -RIGHT?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 21:08:57 GMT -5
From Tim Kings Sister 2008-2009~ Hi Helen--Are you ready for this? This won't be the most articulate, coherent response, but-- Yes, there is DNA unrelated to the victim (but just the hairs, plural). Nobody must have read the autopsy reports until Cory came along--a facial hair was found in Tim's genital area. Guess what? The MSP can't find that hair. There are animal hairs (dog) linking three of the four kids (it wasn't found on one of the girls--Jill I think). This animal hair was sent to some lab that specializes in animal DNA--some time in the last year or so. (Don't mention anything about dogs on the site, because that will be a dead giveaway that I squealed.) No idea where John is. The focus right now is on a suspect who LIVED IN JOHN'S NEIGHBORHOOD. I pointed out how close these two lived from each other--what are the odds of that?! This suspect is so much like John--26 or 27-year-old loser, "food service manager" at an area nursing home, living in his parents' home while they were overseas for the dad's work (1976/77). Helen, this guy was a big time molester. He had sexual assault charges all over the state. This fxxxxx even molested 2 of his nephews. He went to boarding school overseas, so he wouldn't have gone to school with John. He killed himself in the family home in late 1978. This freak ran with another molester who was jailed after Kristine's murder, but before Tim's. This other guy spent his life in prison and died there. Cory discovered that these two guys would use younger boys (14-16) to lure boys. Mike xxxxxxx fits right into that category, if you ask me. If John was directly involved, he was involved with this freak in some way (my conclusion). Here is another thing to be prepared for: the boys were sexually assaulted numerous times prior to their death (my conclusion based on what I heard). Who knows what the story is on the girls. This is obviously the short-hand version, but these are MY conclusions, based on what I heard and saw (and I am sure there are many things I don't know): 1. The evidence is very compelling against this 26-year-old freak neighbor of the Hastings (and when I say "neighbor," I mean like .4 miles away, a few streets over). For instance, the freak bought a light blue Vega with a white hockey stripe in January of 1977. His buddy, the other molester, drove a Pontiac. Both of their names had been turned into the task force and they were interviewed and cleared prior to Tim's abduction and murder. Somebody even fingered this guy for Mark's murder prior to Jill's abduction. He had a beard (hence the facial hair). Came from big money and privilege and this guy was constantly being bailed out of trouble by his parents. 2. This suspect is identical to John, except he is a big time child molester. But as far as age, background, circumstances, Bloomfield Village, it is right on. Just like you said, it must have been the old "Bloomfield Village boys couldn't be involved in something like this, right???!!!" If (and I believe this will be proven ultimately) this guy is proven to have been involved (they got DNA from his only first-degree living relative, a brother, but no results yet and it is expected to take a long time because it is mitochondrial DNA), your suspect is as close a hit as anyone else ever mentioned. John was either involved in some way or had actual knowledge or reason to suspect this other guy. There just cannot be any other explanation. Either way, it is obvious that John should have been looked at much more carefully and extensively after you turned him in. 3. Another link I can think of is that maybe M xxx xxxxxxxx was molested by or willingly had sex with this guy and could have been used as a lure (not on the abductions) to get boys close enough to the freak(s). Cory said it is most likely that this freak told the lures he'd kill them if they ratted him out. He had two shotguns and a handgun. He had threatened some of his molestation victims with a gun. Mxxx doesn't come forward on any of this (nor does his family) because he was threatened or because of his own illegal sex acts. Then he gets the hell out of town. Bloomfield Village is all about appearances and I'm sure the xxxxxx would have wanted to keep a lid on anything like Mxxx's possible homosexuality. So, maybe John puts two and two together, knows the freak killed himself and somehow adopts the story as his own. Either that or he actually had reason to know it was this guy, or he was in fact somehow linked to the freak and the crimes. No link has been found yet, but it is obvious that this will have to be looked into further given what you have said all along on the internet. I am going to send Cory old Captain Mxxxs resume that used to be online. (Am I making any sense? I believe you are fully vindicated either way because your suspect is in many ways identical to this other guy and is geographically right on. John was either was involved or knew something and should have come forward. All of this nuts going on in Bloomfield Village, right outside Birmingham. It's like a suburban chamber of horrors. Either way, how can anyone deny that what you were saying makes perfect sense? How could John have just pulled this out of his ass and lived that close to the home where these kids were probably kept? And, the freak family had a cabin up north, near Alpena that freak-boy often lived in because he couldn't hold down a job.) 4. Helen, Cory Williams has clearly worked his ass off on this. He is the ONLY one doing anything constructive and the MSP will just ride on his coattails and then take credit IF this thing is solved. That's my take anyway. Cory has interviewed so many people it made my head spin, including people out of state. It is amazing to me that the Livonia PD allowed him to work full throttle on this--thank god, because the MSP would be nowhere without him. He worked on this alone for many months, with the backing of Wayne County, knowing that the MSP would fxxx it up if they got involved too soon. How they avoided the police grapevine for that long amazes me. And thank god he is in Wayne County. Those a-holes in Oakland County are pieces of work. I believe that if this falls apart due to lack of physical evidence or reticence on the part of the Oakland County prosecutor to continue with a circumstantial case, Wayne County would pick up the ball on Tim's case. You were totally right. Solve Tim's crime and the rest are solved. It is such a d**n painstaking process--interviewing people, getting search warrants, processing DNA, waiting for it to be tested and retested, trying to get the prosecutor to get on board. Although I was completely encouraged by what I heard and saw, this thing could string along for many more months. But my impression is that Cory is all over it and is pushing the MSP hard. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny. We cannot hack on him and I told him how much I appreciated what you have done and are doing, so hopefully there will be a truce. 5. Amazingly tragic errors have been made at every turn. It is undeniable. ******************* So Helen, I know this is hard, but try to think about John in the context of being involved with at least one other person or perhaps playing a minor role and then tell me what you think. The MSP has treated Cory like total nuts (my words & observation, not his) until he came up with this Bloomfield Village freak. He has totally hung in there and I do believe him when he tells me he is going to do everything he can to bring this to a conclusion and that the Hxxxxxxx link will not be ignored. Now, of course, the MSP are being nice to him--go figure. I can't even think ahead to what I will do if those fxxxxxx try to take credit for any of this. It makes my blood boil if I even think about it for a second. After fxxxxx up the case, being pxxxx to you, Judi, Alpena Witness and Cory, they better realize what thin ice they are on. "Mistakes were made" is an understatement. If they don't come clean at the appropriate time, it will be very bad for them. I told Cory that Det. Gray pushes all of my buttons and that he has every characteristic I hate in a person. His eyes got big and then he said "well, I wouldn't want you mad at me." So, I will instead focus on the powerful acts of kindness and commitment shown by you, Cory, Judi, AW, and the retired cop who also helped me realize how fxxxxxx up the investigation really was (he wants to remain nameless unless we need him). It is truly awe-inspiring. Just one person can touch the entire universe--you go to the cops to tell them about John, they blow you off, you start a website which causes others to become aware and involved, I check out your site and hook up with you and Judi and AW (he wanted to tell me first hand about the Big Boy deal), had I not had my eyes opened, I would have not paid any attention to the things that followed. I would have just ignored them, thinking "oh the cops will check this out fully" (I think Cory now understands that NONE of the prior work can be trusted). I would have continued to live my life the way I had for the past three decades--by shoving the crime out of my head. Helen, coming across the few committed people who care (my list above) is great compensation for the tragic errors that preceded your effort and Cory's effort. It restores my faith in humanity. ok, more later, including the Lamborgine deal. Also my strategy for going forward. I also took pictures of xxx and xxx Tuckahoe and I will forward them. Best not to post them right now--or maybe ever--but interesting nevertheless. I plan on sharing those with Judi and AW. On Jun 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Bingotank@aol.com
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Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 31, 2012 21:20:35 GMT -5
Frist off-I have never needed to be vindicated,and I'm pretty sure -CasObs and Alpena Witness never would need to be either-We all took part in events and saw and heard things ~ That we needed to tell the Public-and what we have said is the truth as it happen in our life- I'm running this information as it will connect to my Occk cover story and to show what we have had to put up with-to us it was all about bringing the Oakland County Child Killer to Justice-To others it was the need for vindication-Today it has all developed in to certain people just wanting to be RIGHT~( To be continued)
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 4:27:17 GMT -5
Part 11~"You are completely vindicated, Helen, any way this shakes out. You all will be fully vindicated, CasObs and Alpena witness too-"
Casual Observer's Testimony Birmingham Today - Reminiscing Yesterday
This video was originally made for my web site many years ago. It was recently compiled, processed and arranged for YouTube. The video was made by Casual Observer who had a mother-in-law that ran into a suspicious man at the Hunter Maple Pharmacy several hours before Tim King was abducted there. Her descriptions match the same descriptions that John told me about a woman she ran into at the same pharmacy. She had a son that was also with Tim King several hours before his abduction. This video documents Tim's abduction location where the Hunter-Maple pharmacy once was and where it all took place. She will walk you through Tim's neighborhood and what it's like today. She will also take you on a drive tour that this man was seen taking after seen at the pharmacy around Poppleton Park and ended up with him stopping in front of her house. He was obviously looking for Tim several hours before he finally found him. She will talk about the 555 building which was something else that John talked about.
In memory of Polly who tried so hard to convey to the police what she witness on that day.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 4:31:46 GMT -5
Part #12~"You are completely vindicated, Helen, any way this shakes out. You all will be fully vindicated, CasObs and Alpena witness too-"
When the OCCK HD Archives project started it was just to document Helen's archives on the OCCK for public viewing on YouTube. As we progressed with it we asked her if anyone else wanted to contribute. As Helen asked around we did get Alpena Witness (AW) to come forward and provide us with his background, contacts in Alpena and information on the Big Boy restaurant and it's layout. This helped as we went to Alpena to investigate and catch some photos for the videos. AW refuses to be interviewed by the news however he did the next best thing, as he wanted something to go on the record. He expressed how bad he feels about hearing this conversation at Big Boy and doing nothing.. Because of all the controversy surrounding Helen and misleading lies passed around on the internet, he felt he should tell the people straight out that really do care what happen and what he experienced. So, he submitted sound files to us. From there we made three video compilations around them with direction from Helen.
Alpena Witness Speaks Witness to Big Boy (1 of 3) AW background, trip to Alpena, Big Boy restaurant layout, placemats with strange conversation in front of him on December 26, 1991.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 4:35:57 GMT -5
Video #13~"You are completely vindicated, Helen, any way this shakes out. You all will be fully vindicated, CasObs and Alpena witness too-"
Alpena Witness Speaks Witness to Big Boy (2 of 3)
Alpena has two Big Boy restaurants, the discussion in front of him and the eeriness, the Troy map that AW could see briefly, 'Lucy In the Sky with Diamonds', AW's wrong conclusions about the discussion and why.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 4:39:30 GMT -5
Alpena Witness Speaks~"You are completely vindicated, Helen, any way this shakes out. You all will be fully vindicated, CasObs and Alpena witness too-"
Witness to Big Boy (3 of 3)
AW realizes 13 years later what the crazy discussion at Big Boy was really about from a written post from Helen on America's Most Wanted (AMW) website in 2004, AW's rude awakening to Helen & John story and the reality, Big Boy restaurant 'lower level' unknown to many young Alpena residents - exclusive photos of the 'lower level' of the Big Boy restaurant from employee private party from over 30 years ago, AW's several attempts at contacting LE and his own ventures in seeking the truth, AW's correspondence with John's family members on AMW website and an attempt at getting the truth out of them (Note - Thread was closed down by request of Helen Dagner), quest for search of Jill's books last seen in Alpena. Michigan (Please ask book collectors you know!!!!).
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 4:42:00 GMT -5
My Three Voice Videos are on the front Index page-"You are completely vindicated, Helen, any way this shakes out. You all will be fully vindicated, CasObs and Alpena witness too-"
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 4:53:04 GMT -5
"Helen, they wouldn't go to Atlanta if there was nothing there. You know they didn't even want to give you the satisfaction of knowing they were going down there to grill him" ~ "These co-k-su-ck-ers have not only not fulfilled their duty (which is owed to four innocent children), they have tried to take down anybody who tried to do the right thing. There is going to be hell to pay and people like us are through paying. Helen, they wouldn't go to Atlanta if there was nothing there. You know they didn't even want to give you the satisfaction of knowing they were going down there to grill him. So as much as it must have killed the MSP to send Gray along, the fu-ck-ers did so. They are not in a position to throw money around right now, and they STILL sent the fu-ck-wad down there. You are completely vindicated, Helen, any way this shakes out. If the MSP doesn't realize this, they are much dumber than I originally gave them credit for".( From Tim Kings Sister -2009~)
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Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 1, 2012 23:03:44 GMT -5
Would anyone use a rope this length to tie up a child? Does anyone see any blood on these ropes? These were in Chris Busch' closet-and are the supposed " Bloody Garrott's" Photo Taken during Chris death Investigation~
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