Helen,Did you see this post by TruthDude the polygrapher ? Hi Reasoning,
Don't forget that there were TWO confessions in the OCCK case that would explain part of it in regard to Mark Stebbins. First, Chris Busch confessed to a local private polygraph examiner in what must have been 1977/78 that he was involved in the Tim King case. Second, Gary Greene from Prison named Chris Busch as the killer of Mark Stebbins. Third, the only matching DNA of any level thus far is of Busch's known victim, James Gunnels, to K. Mihelich. Further, Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person. Further, The DNA taken from Sloan's car has not as yet lead to any known associate published, and which may very well lead back to the world of Chris Busch, the Fox Island group, or the Cass Coridor group; each of which were pedophile probable pals of Busch and associates. We are all frustrated at the pace it has gone here, but compared to the prior thirty years, we are at least on track as it trickles out./////I don't know Helen,do you think he Still Believe' in Fairy Tales? Maybe he is still recovering from his Stroke.His saying "We are at least on track as it trickles out" Must be a Joke,is it possible for anyone to believe the Busch theory any more? Ken ( Note:) I sure can not name you one person,everyone I know has put the Busch Saga to bed.
Sterling Heights, MI
Until someone comes along that even remotely resembles those composite sketches or the descriptions that the witnesses desscribe (AND WAS NOT IN PRISON WHEN THOSE SKETCHES WERE CONCEIVED!)... the Chris Busch clan just does not line up. However, maybe an associate of Chris Busch that is an 'artist' may be the link to the whole OCCK thing including his so called suicide could be the answer.
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 12, 2013 9:25:40 GMT -5
Helen, I do not understand why you didn't tell Cathy at the start,that Busch wasn't Involved in these killings. Robert Note: Robert I did,you can lead a Horse to water...but you can not make them drink-The very first time Cathy and I had contact,I realized that she knew nothing about these killings,just that her brother had been murder by a serial killer, and what effects this had on her family. I immediately start sending her information,I typed with my one finger for hours everyday,all day and into the night.However we were not discussing the Busch theory,because she didn't know about Busch and although I did,I had already written him off because he was a Pedophile,and a pedophile did not commit these murders,nothing pointed to this as a sex crime...and I knew a pedophile could not coordinate a crime like this,as all they think about is sex 24-7 and they don't cut off their supply. Do you honestly think that a pedophile would lay these children out to be found,aren't they kind of sneaky? The crime areas would not of been so clean ...you know I think I will just write a post on this,as other wise this is going to get pretty long.
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 12, 2013 23:52:57 GMT -5
****** 1977~ autopsy report of Kristine Dr. Sillerly's autopsy report and comments were interesting if not enlightening. And like every other report on these child murders -Completely WRONG!!! you can read about this in-**This Is not an active Cover -up,It is The result of A Confederacy of Incompetent Individuals,Oakland County Mi Law Enforcement and News Media
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 13, 2013 0:44:31 GMT -5
Helen, Did you read Judi' Occk book yet? Sue Note: No, but I know it was sent to me on Monday...So I think it should be here Today,I will let you know when it comes and what I thought of it- right now I don't know anything-and those who have read it...won't tell me anything,until after I read it???
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 13, 2013 8:50:37 GMT -5
Ok-My mail doesn't come until 5pm and as always the weather sucks,so who knows if we will even get a delivery today-but I do have some news on Judi' book- Hi Helen-
If you are going to read the book, it is important that you understand it is fiction and it is not about the OCCK. That book can't be written yet. My book is about abducted children, mixes many of the theories and suspects of the OCCK and characterizes many into one. I make this point in the front matter but I do include an afterword that gives on overview of the OCCK. I'll leave it at that to avoid spoilers.
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 13, 2013 8:57:19 GMT -5
Many of you have emailed and ask -when will I run the Info on Busch' murder-Well I am waiting for some info-from an Indian Reservation in AZ, and let me tell you it is like pulling teeth -( I have to know for sure,what time the golden boy arrived there-before Busch' body was found and why they let him stay there-because as you know-anyone on the reservation is protected from any Law Enforcement-but theirs...Soon as I get that-I'm good to go~
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 13, 2013 9:09:44 GMT -5
To the group who have asked -How does John's relatives act toward me-well I haven't talked to John or them in quite a while-but when I have had conversations with members of his family-they have always been polite-about the strongest thing they have said to me-is you have got the wrong guy---I didn't put Johns name out there -Kdogg, -Serialchic, Misty, and the rest of that defunct yahoo group and Johns sister and sister-in -law did,If it had been up to me,John would still be known as just plain John....* John quit talking to me after the last trip out to see him from Michigan LE-but he will stay on the phone and listen to what I have to say-and then hangs up with out saying a word-at least that was the routine the last few times I called him-So I just don't even call him any more,nor do I leave him any Phone messages...
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 13, 2013 11:37:49 GMT -5
lol-I just heard from the Indian Reservation in AZ, and they said the hold -up is they can not find anyone who was alive back then,so that they can view their log-I told them how hard would it be -if they did find someone who was alive back in the day,for them to remember a white guy staying on the reservation,he said he can never remember them ever allowing a white guy permission,it would have had to of been some special circumstance,like he belong to a church group-I thought BINGO!!-anyway he is going to talk to some older Tribal Elders and will get back to me-soon...
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 14, 2013 0:27:40 GMT -5
Someone needs to sit this guy down -and explain the written word to him-There is no Busch-There is no Gunnel-there is no Greene-There is no evidence pointing to anyone of these people-That DNA is like all the rest of the DNA in this saga-NADA!!~ TruthDude Los Angeles, CA #14773 18 min ago
Until someone comes along that even remotely resembles those composite sketches or the descriptions that the witnesses desscribe (AND WAS NOT IN PRISON WHEN THOSE SKETCHES WERE CONCEIVED!)... the Chris Busch clan just does not line up. However, maybe an associate of Chris Busch that is an 'artist' may be the link to the whole OCCK thing including his so called suicide could be the answer. Until there is an arrest, it's all speculation.
then Truthdude; answered GOOD POINT !! The Counterpoint is that two members of the task force were "Not Able To Determine" if Greg Greene ever made bail, or was out at the time of V #4 Tim King abduction. The widely circulated sketch I know of has universal acceptance as most resembling Greene. I can't say if Greene was an Artist, but certainly his transcripts from school(s) would be revealing of that. Further, the sole matching DNA (at whatever level) is to James Gunnels as taken from V#3 K. Mihelich, and that he was known to have been a Busch Victim and perceived lure for children for Busch and Greene and/or others. The perceived Stebbin's hoodie drawing taken from Busch's bedside is of the very victim he was polygraphed about, and whom Greene gave up via Busch as the killer of Stebbins. Further, Busch's confession in an unrelated test to a polygraph examiner. None of these are speculation, and rather weave a web of proactive pedophiles who admitted to picking up children in the very areas where these victims were taken from. Too many coincidences to be ignored for any reasonable person looking in from the outside. The answer may in fact be that it was "All Of The Above" as to all of these individuals being in the Fox Island family or Cass Corridor crew at some level.
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 14, 2013 0:30:23 GMT -5
Wanted Poster of OCCK with details, three OCCK composite sketch drawings and history, comparison between Helen's suspect John from 1967 and the 1st OCCK sketch, Lt Robert Robertson senior frustrations with the case, Oakland County Sheriff Johannes F. Spreen's opinions of the police investigation of the OCCK, Brooks Patterson debates against the sheriff's claims.
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 14, 2013 6:14:11 GMT -5
Ron, Obviously, the killer was someone the kids trusted. Had to be. For that reason we can eliminate Chris Busch. One look at him and you know there's no way any kid (or for that matter any adult) is getting in a car with that guy.
Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 14, 2013 6:26:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the update. I am flabbergasted as to why they do not understand John’s motive. He was jealous of all the other rich kids having material things, plus girlfriends, jobs and educational opportunities he didn’t get from his family. Match that with an abusive home and a divorce and you have a recipe for disaster with certain personality types (John?).
It goes back to Anthony Mitchell being pushed off the water tower. Rich, spoiled kid from the other side of the “tracks”. Same with Chris Busch – rich spoiled kid from a well-to-do GM family; as well. What are the odds?? Johns family lived down the street from Busch.
My speculation: I still think one of the brothers (probably xxxx) was involved with Busch either as an abused kid of the Beaver Island clients or as a scout of young kids for Busch. Perhaps Busch didn’t pay xxxx appropriately for his services (whatever their connection was) or John was NOT HAPPY with what Busch did to xxxx (sexually).
Please keep me posted with any updates. Question – can the police speak with any of the former abused kids (now adults) of the Beaver Island gang and see whether or not they remember xxxx , xxx or John or Chris Busch? Geo