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John
Sept 4, 2011 3:07:59 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 4, 2011 3:07:59 GMT -5
Early this morning a thought jumped out at me about John. Remember I told you that soon after we started communicating in March of 2006 (and you told me John went to Brother Rice) I recalled a conversation I had had with my dad about a suspect who went to Rice? I was back home and it was obviously after 1992 because I had my son with me, who was born in 1992. He was still little and it was before 1995 when my daughter was born. My dad mentioned that the cops were looking at a suspect who had graduated from Rice a couple of years ahead of me--that he was not a whole lot older than me. My dad said Don had spoken with this suspect (obviously John) and that he was crazy and had been in and out of mental hospitals. My dad also said that the cops' attempts to get cooperation from the family concerning dates he/they were out of the country, etc. had not been successful. That the family was not helping--"that it was too long ago; they didn't remember," blah, blah, blah. I remember him mentioning something about that the dad and step-mom couldn't even say when they were on their honeymoon. I said "how can they NOT HELP?!" My dad just shook his head and shrugged his shoulders. Here's how I know he said the stuff about the mental hospital and being crazy (and this is what woke me up this morning): My dad then went on to say that he was thinking about filing a civil suit against this guy to force him to take the 5th amendment on the record. My response was that it seemed like a waste of time because if the guy is crazy it won't help to put him under oath; he will say whatever he wants, including possibly confessing to something he did not do. My mom was in the room and she agreed. Keep in mind that back then we all believed the cops were all over this thing and that if there was something there, they would get to the bottom of it. The next morning my mom asked me how I had slept and I said "I had nightmares last night because of that nuts dad told me." We never spoke about it again. I feel really guilty for talking him out of that civil suit--but god only knows if that would have done anything at the time. It would have outed John and his family back then, but maybe little more. So I believe John has been "in and out of" mental hospitals and that Don told my dad this. Yet when I called Don to discuss Hastings back in March of 2006 I asked "is John mentally ill?" Don immediately said no. I then said "He's not?!" and Don responded--well, maybe borderline. I then asked why he had not taken steps to get your site off of the internet or taken some action to stop you, and wasn't John mortified when he was questioned by police in 1992 based on your information. He said--no, not really--HE KIND OF LIKED THE ATTENTION. WTF? ? I told Cory this way back when. He said it is not that unusual for people to kind of get off on helping the police, etc.--you know the reaction I am talking about. To me that is not the same as "kind of liking the attention" when you are a d**n suspect. Redacted-Redacted -Redacted The main point of all of this is that my dad was under the impression, based on conversations with Don, that the Brother Rice suspect (John) was mentally ill and had been hospitalized a few times because of it. Now if the cops knew that, how come you are the crazy one?! You don't need a shrink to get the answer to that one.
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John
Sept 5, 2011 0:11:36 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 0:11:36 GMT -5
BLK 01662 - Oh ya, i think so.
DS I think she might be mistaken on occasion, but I think she believes pretty much what she says, don't you?
No, I don't.....
DS Let me ask you, how did it come that you drew that map for Helen?
That I drew it for her??
DS Ya, how did that all transpire?
She asked me to draw her a map. She's writing a book. SHe didn't tell me she was writing a book.
DS She may well be writing a book.
Ya, then I'm writing a book too. Not on this, but I'm writing a book.
DS What are you writing a book on?
Financial problems, you know, economics....
DS Personal finance problems? Is your training in finance?
Ya, economics that they don't teach here in this country.
DS Did you study when you were in Europe?
I did a little. I was in Brussels and Luxemburg. That's where the Hughes computers are for the World Banking system right now. You know, back account of everybody in the world.
DS And what did you study there?
I didn't study there, i just....I was sort of on thumbs. I stayed in youth hostels and met some university people there, and that's basically it. the sun never shines there, its always cloudy
BLK 01662
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John
Sept 9, 2011 0:10:34 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 9, 2011 0:10:34 GMT -5
Don Studt -Interview 1992 with John I put some roofs on for one summer.
DS Who did you work for?
he was in Royal Oak, and I always wanted to work outside, you know. I never had a chance to work outside. I would like to build my own house, but never had a steady job working construction.
DS Helen tells me that, in one of your discussions about this case, you told her some things about Jill Robinson's backpack. Do you recall any conversation about that.
Ya, well, she suggested to me that "what do you think she might have in her backpack?" Shes the one that got thrown out of the house or something like, after an argument of something and was leaving home. Helen brings all this to my attention and then she asks me what do you think she might have in her backpack? I said, I don't know. Think she might have cosmetics or you know, jewelry or something like that. I said I didn't know. Shes speculating and I don't.....
DS You speculate back in order to keep the conversation going.
I said ya. what would a 13, or something like that...I said I agree with her. I said do you think she might have this in there...I said probably. That's not unusual, you know. this is the way she asks me these questions.
DS How about....can you recall anything else she said about Jill Robinson?
Ya, about where she was found.
DS What about it?
BLK 01696
In the book, she says she was found on I-75 next to the Troy police station. She asked me if you can see the police station from I-75 there. i said ya. She was reading me the book and I said was the guy going north or was he going south, or was she found on the southbound or northbound side? Shes reading the book to me, so I was drawing a map of the area to show her.
DS Where was this at?
In the restaurant.
DS You're drawing her a map and shes reading a book. i don't understand.
She's reading that book "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing"
EPO She had that in the restaurant with her?
Ya. She's reading it all the time. Any how many of these bodies were found by police stations, so you know, I was drawing her a map of the area, showing her...she was reading from the book showing me where the bodies were found, and I was trying to show her the areas down there, that's all. Because she's writing a book, ok. You know, its along that line, you know.
DS Did it tell her anything specific about the backpack or about anything other than that?
No, this is all speculation. She mentioned to me that she had a backpack, and so she wanted to talk about the backpack. I said I didn't know.
DS What else did you put in this map?
BLK 01697
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John
Sept 9, 2011 0:17:31 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 9, 2011 0:17:31 GMT -5
We all found it strange that John would lie about my having the book as it was never back in my possession after I gave it to him to read-and I never read the book until Cathy bought it for me -in I think 2006-and then to say he was drawing the maps from it and that I took the book every where-I don't know how Studt kept a straight face-while John was lying his A off-They had those maps and all my info long before I ever picked up the book from the Library...
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John
Sept 11, 2011 0:01:27 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 11, 2011 0:01:27 GMT -5
use to take 10 mile across the freeway there to go to occ. That was the east/west way to go at that time. So, I used 10 mile quite a bit. I believe its all Jewish area right there.
DS How about the case? What do you know about that?
I don't remember anything about that. What was she? The names familiar but...
DS I think her body was found in Franklin.
She was one of the first ones. The name''s familiar, but I don't remember anything about her. I don't because it might have been in the newspaper, you know, but...
EPO Did you put your map where her body was found?
In Franklin. There were 2 found in Franklin, right? That's what it said in the book anyway...that book "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing" said she was found in Franklin. That's all thats said about her in that book.
EPO Did it say where at in Franklin?
No
EPO How did you know where to place the bodies if you didn't know where?
But I didn't place the bodies, I just said Franklin somewhere.
EPO Where was Jill Robinson found?
She was the one that was found on I-75.
EPO What about Mahalec?
Thats the other one in Franklin, right?
BLK 01700
EPO Where was she found?
On Bruce Lane, right? That was in the book. I remember....
EPO Did you put that on the map?
Ya, I think so.
EPO How did you know where Bruce Lane was?
I'm familiar with that. I remember when they found her body that I remember it was right off Telegraph. I remember them saying that on TV and stuff.
EPO Do you remember that is was Bruce Lane or was your present recollection refreshed?
My present recollection was repressed. When she brought that book and....Bruce Lane....I remember where Bruce Lane was.
EPO You actually know where it is?
Ya, its right off 13 Mile, isn't it?
EPO You know...........I don't know.
I think its right off 13 Mile Road and Telegraph.
EPO And where was Timmy King found?
I think he was found inside Wayne County. I remember that too.
EPO Did you write that on the map?
No, because I don't know where that is, except out past 8 mile or wherever.
DS Did you say anything to Helen about the underclothes that any of the kids had on?
No, I didn't.
EPO Did you talk about it?
BLK 01701
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John
Sept 12, 2011 0:07:21 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 12, 2011 0:07:21 GMT -5
No, I didn't. She mentioned something about....the guy put her clothes back on and they weren't right or something like that. And I said did you see that Colombo TV episode where the guy put the girls pants on backwards, or the tag was on backwards, and that's how they found out that she didn't put them back on or something like that.
DS Did you offer a theory as to why Jill Robinson was shot in the head?
i might have. I might have said, well maybe she may have given him some trouble when he tried to get rid of her.
DS Before he got rid of them all, eventually.
Helen tile me that she was the one 14 going on 24, I believe.
DS Helen said that?
Ya, and she was kind of hard headed. As a result, he could have resorted to violence. I think thats about all I concluded about that.
EPO Did you say anything about maybe she was hard to handle and wanted to go home all the time, and the other ones didn't? She was real demanding?
No, I didn't.
EPO Did Helen say that to you and you responded to that question? I don't believe so. Other than he might have wanted to get rid of her, you know, because she was giving him a hard time. SO, I can't...I don't think we talked about anything more than that.
DS We've been talking about this case for 2 hours. Never once did
BLK 01702
you say you didn't do it. i didn't do it. I told Helen that one night. I said "listen, I'm not the guy. You're either going to believe me or not."
DS I'm not going to tell you that we've known one of those kids for a long time. Why should believe that you didn't kill him?
Why should you beleive that I did do it?
DS You were in the area at the time. You may or may not have been Europe for a couple of months in '76 that we;re concerned with. I ;m real interested to see the passport. Very interested to see the passport.
Ok
DS You were in Europe at the time. You weren't working, you were working weekends, maybe, but were unable to verify that. You stayed with your mother and there was a house next door that your family owned that may or may not have been vacant for a period of time. You could pretty much come and go as you please. There is some indication that there were a couple of vibrator incidence, whether of not thats important or significant, or true. They're out there yet to be resolved. You're a smart guy, you're quiet, intelligent, a soft spoken guy. I don;t think you'd have any trouble relating to kids. Whether or not that would be for a positive purpose of not,I don't really know. But, thats a few reasons.
EPO And somebody thought you were suspicious to start out.
Who's that?
DS Back in 1977.....
BLK 01703
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John
Oct 4, 2011 11:15:18 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 4, 2011 11:15:18 GMT -5
BLK 01636
Contacted by phone, confirmed the polygraph for April 9th. Further confirmed that he will meet us on the 8th of April 25 2:00 p.m. at the Holiday Inn in Alpena.
Interviewed Helen Dagner (copy of taped interview is attached.)
Interviewed . He is currently living in the house with at . He recalled the conversation in which he and Helen and got into about a week or so ago. He didn't know the date. This conversation was speculating on the Oakland County child killing case. He said he recalls Helen and had lengthy conversations about it. He said did not ever admit to being involved in this case. However, he offered a lot of details and Helen offered a lot of details on these series of crimes. He could not recall any of the specifics, but was certain that did not admit involvement.
I asked him if he believed that could do this. His response was "hell, ya." I said what do you mean by that? He said he thought was like a fish moving underwater where you can't see the fish but you can see movement. He also said he thought flipped in and out of gear a lot. I asked what he meant by that and he said he's just a very weird person and he could never quite understand what he was saying or what he was doing. Other than that, he really had no further information.
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John
Oct 5, 2011 0:08:13 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 5, 2011 0:08:13 GMT -5
FIOA DOCUMENT-BLK1648-Don Studt and John-----John,well she's accused me of being the Oakland County Child Killer.The first time I met her over to Sy----house,she thought I was from Biringham and Immediately she got on the kick....The Helen Dagner show,,,,It's wherever she goes.Then she told me that I was the prime suspect,so I really got leery when she told me that.So I decided to stay away from her.Studt-When did she tell you that? John-A couple of weeks ago,I believe. Then she told me she was writing a book on this.I'm from the area down there and I know the area well.I grew up there,so,I was telling her of places down there. But she's a liar and I don't know what her motive is,or who she works for. I know where she gets her money but she's ...I really can't say much for her,I really can't. Studt-What about the accusations that she's making?-John-What can I do about,you know? She has a strong feeling that I had something to do with this. Studt=Why did she think that?-John-I have no idea.I'm not even going to talk about it really,because I don't know where she's coming from or why she's been making that kind of statement. She doesn't know me hardly at all. But just the fact that I was there at the time-gives her enough reason to...Studt-What do you mean,were you in the Birmingham area at the time? -John-Right. I believe she's into everybody else's affairs also.She knows everyone that's in trouble and things of that nature and she knows all the police in the area.
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John
Oct 10, 2011 0:44:11 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 10, 2011 0:44:11 GMT -5
-Studt Interview BLK01586-Mother of John's Child-She said,one time when they lived in Pontiac, she went upstairs when he was in the shower and went through one of his bags and she found some woman's underpants in there that were dark blue and had black lace around the edge. That same day, after he got out of the shower,she went back in and went through his bag and she found a vibrator in his bag that was wrapped in plastic...
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John
Oct 13, 2011 0:05:38 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Oct 13, 2011 0:05:38 GMT -5
BLK-01642-John said-Being a native of Birmingham,Michigan,I was approached this last February by (Mother of my child) and one Helen Dagner and accused of a serious crime committed in that city-some fifteen years ago. I acknowledged to the woman that I was aware of such a crime- told them of what I had heard and read about this incident fifteen years ago. Of course I denied any connection with it.Immediately, without justification, guilt-infliction reigned from the two women.They became so excited over this that a creative scenario started to reach my family and the Birmingham Police Department.Upon contacting the Birmingham Police, I explained to them the nature of the problem.. After four days of questioning and polygraph tests over a period of a month,Birmingham Police Chief Austin and Commander Studt concluded that I was clear-
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John
Nov 2, 2011 19:02:43 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 2, 2011 19:02:43 GMT -5
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John
Nov 18, 2011 7:26:20 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 18, 2011 7:26:20 GMT -5
No, we are not done with the story of John-In fact we are working on it daily-and it is sucking the life right out of us-everything is taking so long to confirm-and it is maddening-but that is how it goes-35 yrs after the killings-when people who have the Information-can not understand...what the big rush is....
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John
Nov 21, 2011 1:13:23 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Nov 21, 2011 1:13:23 GMT -5
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John
Dec 7, 2011 4:46:14 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 7, 2011 4:46:14 GMT -5
Well another Witness has passed away-John's Father-Dec,1st,2011-He was 88 years old~
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John
Dec 10, 2011 0:22:31 GMT -5
Post by Helen Dagner on Dec 10, 2011 0:22:31 GMT -5
Alpena Michigan-Narrative -Present for the interview were Commander Studt,Chief Ostin and John Hastings-Occk THE Topic: STUDT-JOHN INTERVIEW-Begins on page two of this thread
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