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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 4:34:57 GMT -5
At one time the Old Yahoo Group had some very decent members ,with real personal interest in the Oakland County Child Murders of 1976-77,However the group was taken over by Kevin Rundle and he drove it to ruin,with his obsession over me-Here is a post from 2005 just before the group went defunct with their out of control brutal behavior toward me~ Post by Robin ,before she exited the group after she received over 150 email posts in one night,sent out by Kevin all bashing me,and since Kdoggs' Old Yahoo Group has taken over The Occk Forum at Topix with the same tactics an has all ready started to run it into the ground -Proof that some people never change~ Hello Everyone, Thank you Tim for your words of wisdom, and your attempt to help everyone see each others point of view. After hearing nothing for months I was starting to wonder what was happening when I was flooded with over 150 e-mails at once - a bit overwhelming! Then to have to sort through all the back stabbing is just too much. As a family member of one of the missing children I will now unsubscribe. It is just too hard to listen to the infighting going on between some of the members. I joined a few years ago primarily because I live in another part of the country and I heard they were reopening the case as a cold case, and I wanted to keep up with the news. To be honest I have had many thoughts run through my mind over the past year or two. Could this site help find my cousin's killer? Could the killer be a member, and be playing with us all? I have thought long and hard about the motives of many of the members of this site who post frequently. Are they glory hounds? Sam Sleuth Wanna Be's? Or good intentioned people who just want to help? I have come to no conclusions. I do want to be very clear in this. I deeply appreciate all the time and effort you have all given, and hope that it helps, that the OCC is found. But in your quest for the truth, understand that ultimately a trial must happen, if you are successful. I know you want answers, and you seem to seek out information, and to want to post that on the Internet. As a family member I ask you what damage are you ultimately doing to a trial? The police do have more information than they share - that's the way they prove guilt. Certain information must be held private that only the investigators and killer know. If every last detail is posted here - you are making it that much harder for the police to ultimately do the very thing you want to see done most. Put the animal(s) who did this behind bars. As for me I must let this go for now. I have spoken to Det. Angler (not sure if I spelled his name right - sorry) a number of months ago. I am convinced he is a good, no, great cop. I have family members who are also cops. In my heart I do not believe he could live with himself if he were covering up for a childhood friend. Of course I may have misunderstood that thread, I do think that was the implication that was being made??? I have one other point to make before I sign off - the hair - the child's body had lain there for some time - it could just be a neighborhood dog or cat that wandered by as the child lay there- or it could be a hair from on the child from earlier- you go to a friends house, their cat rubs against your leg - a hair sticks to you - you get in your car - the hair sticks to your car seat - days later it ends up back on a different set of clothes..... sometimes a hair is just a hair. The investigators are professionals, and have retraced their steps over and over and over again. Each time with new and better equipment. Patience is a virtue. In the end I believe we will know who, but never the more painful why. Meantime try to remember you are all on the same team. Best regards during the holiday season
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 4:46:11 GMT -5
This is a post from yesterday at the Topix Occk Forum and will show you that nothing about this group has anything to do withh the memory of these Occk Victims-
Warren, MI Les Martin
I will tell some shhitt. During my divorce Jackie paid her attorney $45,000. She did not want a peaceful breakup where I could keeps running my business and give her a healthy share of my income. She preferred to destroy me. My attorney and the judge enjoyed some of that $45,000. My attorney told me Jackie had romantic relations with her attorney and the judge. My attorney tricked me into signing a divorce agreement that put in jail for nine months a year for the rest of my life. Seriously. I went to the judge and told him I got bamboozled by my attorney and he said “You signed it, so sue your attorney”. So I did. My attorney walked into court and never breathed a word. The judge said “a judge may have gave you the same divorce agreement without an attorney, case dismissed”.
I had already been thrown in jail once but I did not have thousands of dollars to stay out of jail this time. So I went the insane route. Went to a hospital and waited until after my court date to go home. The court could not touch me because I was a ward of the state. And to be honest the state was treating me like a king. They basically was giving me anything I wanted. They gave me thousands of dollars not to murder my wife. I explained to everyone that the court system had actually created a situation where it was prudent for me to murder Jackie. For less than the cost of one month’s alimony I could have her disappear off the face of the Earth. I would not have to pay her and I would not have to spend another day in jail. State workers kept saying “if Jackie comes up missing you will be the first person they look at”. I said “what do I have to lose, I am spending 75% of the rest of my life in jail anyway”. I also told them there was little chance I would get caught.
I had a plan. If the insanity route did not keep me out of jail that I would take the first six months in jail. However it would be the last time. I planned on digging Jackie a grave in a farm parcel in the middle of a swamp in the middle of a wooded area. The spot was covered by a pile of tree branches. I would displace the tree branches for the time being. Then I would hire a ghetto boy to kidnap Jackie from a parking lot and bring her to me at a predetermined meeting place. Jackie would be bound and gagged. I would take her to her grave. I would place her on her back and remove her gag. Then I would let her yell all she wants because no one will hear her. Then I will say “pregnant dog, was it all worth it to you to make my life a living Hell? I will then piss on her face. Matter of fact I would save up a jug and pour it slowly on her face. Then I would bury her alive and then put the tree branches back over her grave. I would arrange to meet the ghetto boy again in the ghetto on a dark unlit street and he would become another statistic.
Thankfully the court woke up and realized they created this monster. Now I am free, free, free and Jackie got zilch for her evil destruction of a wonderful man. ( and this is the memory they are leaving on the Occk Child Victim Memorial site?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 22:39:55 GMT -5
This is a post from Topix sent to me by a reader who has been stalked by these Two guys,and she has asked me to give out the warning that I have through the years,and hopefully save others from what will take place,if they have any contact with them,on or off site. I think she said this was posted today******"-On the other subject. Like Helen says when she thinks Kevin is not being a friend to me; Kevin is a proud outstanding family man. His family definitely comes first. I can relate to the nth degree.
But my personal observation is Kevin is a very honest man. He tells me exactly what he is thinking and if something does not add up to him he gets to the bottom of it. Dialogue is a powerful thing. Like all of you Kevin does not care if my non OCCK claims are true. He only cares if my claims that Punky is one of the OCCK's is true. However, he did say he was relieved when Kathy Coomer came clean. He should be because he was the one influenced her to do so. I disagree with Kevin and all of you that my non OCCK claims are not important. They establish a pattern of honesty and a pattern unrivaled in history of one man being connected to so many random acts of high profile murder including the OCCK and laugh all you want Hoffa. Prove one of my claims untrue and that destroys my credibility. So be my guest. I have nothing to fear. Attacks on my character only reinforce my claims. You don’t think a Sunday school teacher is going to crack this case do you? If someone had not put the kibosh to my appearance on the Steve Wilko Show all my claims would have been proven on National TV. Kevin personally knows of two detectives that were banned from communicating with me by powers above. Kevin was the one that hooked me up. One of these detectives agreed my evidence was astronomical. He also was privy to hold back information.
There is something I learned recently about hold back information but because it was something that was shared with me under strict circumstances. I have a legal obligation not to repeat what I was told." Note-Ones they start telling how they have contact with Investigators and the Police-all Hell breaks loose-I have 504 Email Posts where these two have made the same statement-None are true-There is not a Cop in the World that would have a conversation with them ,about The Oakland County Child Murder Cases-as they have been Warned by previous LE,to stay clear of these trouble makers.The following posts,do not and are not the worst of this Duo actions-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 22:44:33 GMT -5
All though they started this fabrication of being involved with the cops, in 2004,I do not have the time to go through and read posts in order that I get this message to you-kdogg
krundel@twmi.rr.com
Jan 31, 05 - 9:55 PM Interview with 2 PD's
I have been asked be some members in the yahoo occk group to post here in the public forum about my meeting with two police departments on Feb 4th. This Friday at 10 am and 2 pm I have meetings reguarding the oakland county child killer and people involved in the case. I'm not quite sure what is gonna happen but I told the police that I would like to ask questions about the occk case. I do understand that it is an active investigation and I dont expect to get any answers but I'm still gonna ask. If there are any questions that you would like to ask please post here or email me in private and I'll ask the detectives. kdogg
Feb 8th, 2005 - 10:06 PM Re: Interview with 2 PD's
Sorry everyone it took me so long to post about the meeting with Det Anger and Det Gray. I just wanted to get all my ducks in a row before I posted anything.
Royal Oak pd called me Friday morning and cancelled our meeting. They said that since any info I gave them would be forwarded to Det Anger and since I was meeting with Det Anger that same day, it would be a waste of time.
I spent about 2 hours with the detectives Friday. I don't think they planned on being there that long with me. I think that they would have stayed another 2 hours with me if they could have done so. There was so much information to go over that we only covered about 3/4 of it.
Both Detectives were very nice. Det Gray is the officer in charge of the occk case now. Det Anger is the last remaining occk task force member that hasn't retired. Det Gray's partner on the case is the son of Robbie Robertson the former head of the occk task force. Det Gray has a few plans on how to solve this case and is busy working on the things he needs to do so. This guy is the real deal. They were both really up front and honest with me about many different things in the occk case. They did show me the suspect list with all the names on it. All 9,996 of them. The list was at least 6 inches thick. They did show me the name of the suspect that I was there to talk about with them. The problem with the suspect list is that it contains 9,996 names of cleared suspects with no reason why they were cleared. So the Msp plans to go over each suspect one at a time. They are in the middle of receiving a grant so they can employ 2 data entry people to process all the information and the MSP just received a new software program from the FBI to help them with the case. In short, they are finally doing what needs to be done.
The Detectives are reading our post on different sites. And Det Gray said to expect a lot of media attention on the case soon. But he asked that we be patient. I know its been 28 years but for the first time I think we got the right guy on the job. So I'm willing to sit back for awhile and see if he is gonna keep his word.
Because we talked about so many different things in the case I never really got a chance to ask any of the questions that you submitted to me. But I'll see if I can answer them now that I know a little more about the case. You can read about it more on the yahoo site.
Kevin
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 22:56:59 GMT -5
This is how it starts,you will understand why all posts on my site have to go through me-Because they latch on to any Information and then start the stalking-This gal had a license number that she sent in to feedback to see if anyone could recognize,as the cops told her,they could not check it out because plates were not on computer back in 76-77 and they could not or would not be able to go through them by hand -unless they had more probable cause-*Kevin, Just min later starting emailing her and finally she emailed him the following question as he led her to believe he had meetings with the Police coming up and needed that info~fortunately she did not give him any further info and finally he gave up and moved on to other prey... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CXxxxx Xxxxxxxx To: "kevin rundel" <krundel@twmi.rr.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: plate Who are you? That you have a meeting with police?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 23:01:00 GMT -5
This is how he was able to get face time with Cops-This is just one of hunders of emails of mine that he re wrote to make it appear that the info had come from me-From: "kevin *Censored*" To: Bingotank@aol.com Subject: Re: I don't have your Phone number-LOL....so will this do? Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:36:53 -0500
HTML Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ] Helen, I got an email from the state police. They want me to come in and talk to them. Anger wants to be there. They did confirm that John was a suspect and was cleared. But no one knows why he was cleared. If they are for real about wanting to solve this case I would like to tell them the names of the 2 children john is a suspect in their murders and the police that contacted you about them. Kevin
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 23:04:09 GMT -5
Fabrication -Fabrication-Letter to cop's
To whom it may concern,
Below is a copy of e mails I have sent out to members of our OCCK group. I ask that you please take a minute and look over what Is said. I would be willing to answer any questions you may have. Keep in mind that I am also contacting Oakland County Sheriff, Wayne County Sheriff, Kym Worthy, David Gorcyka and Mike Cox. If nothing comes from this email I will then goto the media.
As some of you may be aware, Ive been talking to different law enforcement agencies about the occk. And I've come to this conclusion. The State Police don't care about this case at all. They are years away from processing info. Berkley police don't care. I talked to a Livonia detective who was very helpfull. We spent almost 2 hours going over info and seemed generally interested in this case. However, all roads leed to Det Anger. And Det Anger has had enough. When I gave info to the LPD detective he thought it was worth a call to Det Anger. When he called me back he stated Det Anger would have no problem doing a DNA test and discussing info. I had my reservations about Det. Anger but decided to talk to him anyway. Now I know, he has been through to many false leeds and theories to give a **** any more.
More about Anger,
He spent about 2 minutes listening to what I said. He never answered a question. He was talking to someone else while I was talking to him. The LPD said that Det Anger would be more than willing to do a DNA test. When I spoke to Det Anger he said that he will not do a DNA test unless there is hard evidence. Since he wouldn't listen to what I said and wouldn't let me finish, how does he know that the info I have is not hard evidence. I asked If it were possable to have a DNA test done else where and I would pay for it since the city of Berkley did not want to pay the $2000. He said no. He also said that if we did do a DNA test that it would take the State Police 3 yrs to get results. He said that if my suspect is the killer than I should go and get the pictures he took of his victims and bring them to him. At this time I tried to explan to him that another police agency may have these photos and not be aware they are occk victims. He wouldn't listen to that info either. All he would have to do is make one phone call. There's something very wrong with this picture. But like a very good friend of mine used to say " the **** don't stink unless your stir it."
Thanks
Kevin Rundel
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 23:10:29 GMT -5
Kevin stalked CasO so much,that she at one time left the Internet,just to get away from him-He posted this to her to get her back on line,however she had enough and did not go back online untill That site was shut down by Bravenet-***Cas Ob, I'm guessing that your not posting because of me. I relize now that what I did was wrong. I posted that very personal info in an atempt to dis credit Helen and her story. I did not mean to scare you. I also relize that by posting that info, and fighting with Helen did nothing to bring justice to the kids. That should have been then and is now the main focus, justice for the families and the kids. I am sorry. There could be a conection between your younger sister and Susans brother. But thats up to the police to look into and I dont see any reason to get you or your family involved. Kevin - Note these apology posts were just Lures to get people back online, so he could harass them under another screen name-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 24, 2012 23:24:45 GMT -5
This is just one of the posts Kevin posted at AMW forum,before we got that shut down-It is to Johns sister,who he would contact and tell all type of crazy things that I and others were posting all over the Internet-Only we weren't It was Kevin and the Old Yahoo Group posting these things and using the names of posters off my sites-****Thank you sisterofjohn for speaking the truth and seeing thru Helen's lies. Helen posted on her site that she wanted proof I've talked with the police in the occk investigation. So I told her to call Det Gray. She said she's not gonna call him and that he should post on her site. She wanted proof, I gave her the person to speak to. She doesnt want to do it. I had no problem calling Rogers City police or Alpena police to ask about her. They were more than willing to talk about Helen. I'm sure Det Gray wouldn't mind setting her straight. Thanks again for everything M Kevin Note -at the same time he was emailing me -telling me the tricks he pulled on Johns family to get information out of them and then he would send me the info-and I refused to post it and deleted his emails-Note that he mentions several police in that AMW post and of course -He had not contacted any of them-They all emailed and called me by phone to tell me -they or anyone in their Dept. was never contacted by Rundel- So it was easy to get the site shut down-just sent the AMW forum the emails from the police Dept.who they contacted-and down came the site- The Detroit Free Press Forum also came down the same way-also all the other sites-this has gone on for 9 years-and he still hasn't learned-Real smart group -Right?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 25, 2012 23:40:23 GMT -5
~ This is a email from a member of the the Old Yahoo Group-She is talking about -Les' Ex Wife Jackie-who used Susan as a screen Name~ **Susan hasn't given a lot. She is worried about her mother's reaction and her husband's job.Apparently her husband has lost his job before after revealing that he knew who the killer was. She just said that her brother had access to a blue gremlin, had a job where someone could punch a time clock for him so he could be gone for periods of time without being caught. Had a home where he could have kept the kids. And something about a Polaroid picture of a young girl. She wants to have DNA testing done--but unless the hair found on Tim is around, there is nothing to match to. My money (and my gut) are still with Helen and John's confession. As you pointed out to KDogg, there are too many things that Helen knew from John that coincide with your families experience. That's enough for me. But I do believe that Susan and her husband believe that her brother is the killer. Do you get what I mean? I think for her, lots of things fit into her experience and what witnesses said etc-- If we could definitively exclude her brother by DNA, we (the group) could move on--I think KDogg is siding with Susan and her husband at this point--whatever! Who cares! I think attacking Helen is just stupid--why do it? He can believe whomever he wants. This Mark Mabry guy is just a little wacko--he seemed nice and then he absolutely went ballistic this weekend at Susan for having "secrets"! LOL OMG! Get a grip people! Kevin and Mark want to give John's last name and parent's address's-- I'm not putting that out there as Helen told us that in confidence so if she wants to tell them--fine but it won't be me. I gave the same clue about John's last name that Helen has give to everyone who's asked. And I told the board that the parent's homes were in Bloomfield Twp--if they figure out the last name-they can figure out where they lived--I did! And I'm no genius, lol! I'm glad Helen hasn't written me off--but what she said to me was really way of the mark--saying that a fourth grader could tell that Susan was lying--I don't thing Susan is lying--I think she believes that her brother could have done the crimes based on what she knows. And I don't know about you, but if I thought a brother of mine had done the crimes, I'd be wishing like hell that it wasn't true--who would want that kind of infamy in their family?! I think most people would say---PASS! But she feels compassion towards the victims and their families--a very hard position to be in. So that's my spiel. The good, the bad and the ugly. Keep in touch, Xxxxx Note~ Does Jackie seem like a gal ~that would have tossed out -Les' evident s?? -IMO NO~ Les just uses it for an excuse ~ To explain why he has NO evidence...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 26, 2012 0:20:43 GMT -5
I TOLD HIM-I NEVER PLAY TWO SIDES AGAINST THE MIDDLE!!
Here's what I'm thinking about doing, let me know what you think. If John's family reads occk post on your site then they would think that we are on different sides of the fence. Kevin vs Helen. Remove the post asking my too contact you or post some bad comments about me. SHould his family see that I'm not part of your group, they may think I'm on their side. Should there be a point where I can talk to one of the family members, either Mike or Patty, I could try and earn their trust in an effort to shut you up. Play both ends against the middle so to say. We might have a better chance at keeping track of John if they feel I'm on their side. What do you think?
Kevin ----- Original Message ----
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Post by michael on Nov 24, 2015 0:25:06 GMT -5
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Post by Faith Joe on Dec 6, 2015 18:00:15 GMT -5
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Post by bella john on Feb 16, 2016 20:48:38 GMT -5
I will like to share my testimony to you all.i got married to my husband about three year ago we start having problems after two years of the marriage, like we stop sleeping on the same bed, fighting about little things he always comes home late at night, drinking too much and sleeping with other women outside, i have never love any man in my life except him, he is the father of my two children and I don't want to loose him because we have worked so hard together to become what we are and have today, few month ago he now decided to live me and the kids, being a single mother can be hard sometimes and so I have nobody to turn to, I was heart broken.i called my mom and explain every thing to her, my mother told me about Dr EHIGHALOA, how he helped her solve the problems between her and my dad, my dad always snow at night, if he is sleeping at night, his snowing will even wake our neighbors, it became a big problem in my hood, that led to the brake up between my parents, I was surprise when my mom told me that DrEHIGHALOA had helped him stop his snowing, and brought them together, i was surprise about it because they have been without each other for three and half years and it was like a miracle how they came back to each other, and how my dad stop snoring, that was how i was directed to DrEHIGHALOA, and explain everything to him, so he promise me not to worry that he will cast a spell and make things come back to how we where so much in love again and that it was another lady that cast a spell on him, that was controlling my husband, he told me that my problem will be solved within 30 hours if I believe I said yes, So he cast a spell for me and after 29 hours my love came back asking me to forgive him.i Am so happy now, so that why I decided to share my experience and testimony with every body that have such problems contact HIS email. DREHIGHALOASPELLTEMPLE@GMAIL.COM GETTING YOUR EX LOVER BACK. WINNING LOTTERIES. CHILD BEARING. BREAKING OF GENERATION COURSE. GETTING OF JOB. JOB PROMOTION. MONEY SPELL. SPIRITUAL PROTECTION. HERBAL CARE. BEAUTY SPELL. Death Spell And many more.. contact him on his private email and explain what you want him to do for you i assure you he shall help,His email isDREHIGHALOASPELLTEMPLE@GMAIL.COM
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Post by EMILY on Mar 23, 2016 22:07:45 GMT -5
HOW I GOT MY HUSBAND BACK WITH THE POWER OF DR HELP
My Name is Madison Emily. i am here to testify what this great spell caster has done for me. i never believe in spell casting, until when i was was tempted to try it.. i and my husband have been having a lot of problem living together, he will always not make me happy because he have feel in love with another lady outside our marriage, i tried my best to make sure that my husband leave this woman but the more i talk to him the more he makes me fell sad, so my marriage was leading to divorce because he no longer gives me attention. so with all this pains and agony, i decided to call my friend who was having such problem and he told me to contacted this spell caster DR HELP that he was the one that help her to see if things can work out between me and my husband again. this spell caster DR Help told me that my husband is really under a great spell that he have been charm by some magic, so he told me that he was going to make all things normal again. he went ahead and cast the the spell for me, after 3 days of casting the spell my husband changed completely he came apologizing saying the way he treated me that he was not himself, i really thank you DR HELP for bringing back my husband to me i want you all to contact him for those who are having any problem related to marriage issue and relationship problem he will solve it for you. his email address is here babatukatemple@gmail.com thanks so much baba for saving my marriage.
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