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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 11, 2011 0:12:55 GMT -5
Hey ,yes I can see the emails-WOW! I had no idea we had so many new members-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 13, 2011 22:43:05 GMT -5
Chris Busch on Gray's wall Maybe?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 14, 2011 7:34:20 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 16, 2011 21:25:46 GMT -5
Oh Helen, he was a really good kid. It's wonderful to be asked about him, because no one ever asks. Tim was very cute--cute face, freckles, small for his size but very coordinated, usually fairly messy hair, almost always a big smile. The inside matched the outside. He was kind, considerate, very funny and sometimes mischevious (in a harmless way). He would sometimes laugh so hard at something you could barely understand him--he could literally fall down laughing. He loved to tell jokes, but often starting laughing his head off before he got the punch line out. He was clever, hard working and well-liked. Honestly, you couldn't help but like this kid. He was having a great year in 6th grade--he and a friend had gotten first place for their project in the science fair, Tim had gotten a part in the 6th grade play, was playing hockey, skiing once in a while with a friend's family, and looking forward to baseball try-outs. He played baseball for years. He was quite athletic and very coordinated. He got good grades, and was such a cool kid--he worked very hard, but he didn't care about things like -good handwriting--which was a big deal back then. He was saving money for a light blue running suit--that's why he asked me for money that night--he didn't want to use any of his savings. He really appreciated his friends and was wise beyond his years about people's feelings. He was very articulate, which was sometimes wild coming from such a small person. As I said, considerate and kind--he always had ideas of what he wanted to give all of us for gifts at Christmas and for birthdays. He had a lot of energy. He was a pleasure to be around. Tim was closest with my Mom--they had a special bond. He would sometimes just run up behind my Mom and hug/squeeze her around the waist. The rest of us were teenagers by then and of course we didn't do stuff like that anymore. The entire time Tim was held captive, I'm sure in addition to everything else, he was completely beside himself because he knew how distraught my Mom would be about him being gone. My Mom and Tim had actually talked about how with the three of us older kids close to going off to college, he would be an only child for a few years. Nothing would have made my Mom happier. The four of us had normal kid fights, but much less with Tim because he was quite a bit younger. He wasn't a pest or anything like that--we liked having him around. He had a lot of friends that he did stuff with, so he didn't spend all of his time waiting around for us to entertain him. My Dad adored him. We all did. I know I sound like I'm making this up, because often in death people become larger than life, but I am not exaggerating. He was a decent, funny, kind person and anyone would have loved having him as a son. He was a good brother, grandson, nephew, cousin, friend. I know this is true for all of the kids, but the person who killed him had to have ice water coursing through his veins to kill Tim, especially after interacting with him for 6 days. It is truly mind-boggling. After the autopsy, Tim was dressed in a light blue running suit. Like the one he and my Mom would have gone out to buy together if he had gotten the chance to save some more money. we had a private viewing of Tim's body--just the very immediate family. A younger man (not sure what age, but an adult) later stopped by the funeral home at an odd hour sometime later, telling the funeral director that he was a relative and he had driven all night, and could he please see Tim's body? He was of course turned away. We had no male relative driving a long distance to come to Tim's funeral. The cops asked us. Things like this were the reason we waited many weeks to get a grave marker for Tim, because we didn't want freaks coming out to the cemetery. I'm telling you, this is as bad as it gets. Tim's forehead was very seriously bruised. I'm thinking it was the left side, the more I think about it, because his left side was to the wall and usually the funeral directors position the body so that people can't get a good look at injuries. (Although the bruising extended to the center of the forehead.) I saw in one newspaper article that this bruising was mentioned and that someone speculated the bruising could have occurred post-mortem when he was dumped on Gill Road. Maybe it was post-mortem, but I have a hard time believing that. Everyone thinks the babysitter" treated these kids relatively well. Give me a break. He also had a cut inside of his mouth (mentioned in some of the newspaper articles). Where did that come from?! We were told not to cry or show undue emotion at the funeral because of the reaction it might provoke in the killer. As I said, it doesn't get much worse than this. Can you imagine not crying at your brother's funeral? I could go on and on about what my family went through, but why bother, since it is nothing compared to what Tim endured. Like Tenyears said in his recent post, it's better just to think about Tim, not the horrifying aspects of his abduction, murder and the after-shock that affects us to this day. That's what's gotten me this far--my memories of what a good kid he was, and even the thought that he could still be with me at some level........
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 19, 2011 0:43:38 GMT -5
All This Info Proves Is That Chris Busch was a big, big-time child molester and liked boys Re-Post ****Hi Helen, It turns out your instincts are right on--there is plenty going on and you are not going to like it. I am merely repeating what I have been told (of course with my editorial comments).
I spent quite some time on the phone today. Here's what I have via my Dad and Cory. One thing I verified with a retired cop. This is all in my words, so keep in mind there is my spin to the thing. But that's the only way I can tell it. Get ready; it is a mindblower and HAS to stay down low for now. You can forward this to Judi and AW for their input, and I'm assuming you will run this by your daughter and Rick. Their feedback might be helpful-- I will leave it to your discretion whether or not to forward to Judi and/or AW.
John has not been polygraphed yet, but that is still in the works. Right. For reasons that will become obvious in a few sentences, they HAVE TO GET TO JOHN ASAP, or you are right--the window will close forever (except if some investigative journalist pushes it and makes it public). More on that in a bit.
They have PLENTY on Busch and are waiting for lab results on fibers (state lab is comparing fibers from kids' clothing to fibers obtained when they vacuumed out the ductwork at Busch's parents' house. Also waiting for lab results from the FBI--supposedly any day now--comparing dog hairs found on some of the kids with dog hair found in the duct work. They in fact reran that hair found on Kristine some time ago and they got a hit with a convict (not in the can for molestation but some robbery stuff). This guy was 14 or 15 at the time of these crimes and lived in Flint next door to one of Busch's brother's house. This kid was friends with the two Busch kids (that Chris Busch was the uncle of). This convict hung out with Busch and was a molestation victim. He admitted to being a victim of Chris Busch and going from Flint to Bloomfield Village to stay at Busch's parent's house. Is having memory problems about how his hair wound up on Kristine's stomach. Wanted to say that the hair must have been in Busch's car and transferred to Kristine when her body was placed in the car. May have actually been forced by Busch to help with dumping Kristine's body to keep him quiet. He puts her over his shoulder to carry her and that's how his hair winds up on her stomach area.
Circumstantial evidence includes (I know I don't have all of it): At Busch's suicide scene they found a drawing of a young boy screaming. At the time it was believed (and since verified as they have the drawing) that it resembled Mark Stebbins. Busch had laid out some bloody ligatures on the floor in that room. Those ligatures were sent to the FBI and never seen or heard about again. Busch had been polygraphed by the MSP in Flint after Kristine's murder. He "passed." Experts have since reviewed the polygraph chart (without knowing the case) and opined that he absolutely should have failed. I think what happened is that the Bloomfield Township PD shows up at the suicide scene, contacts the task force when they see that weird nuts in his room, the task force looks at Busch's file and says OH f**k! we gave that guy a pass and he went out and killed another kid. Cory spoke to the retired detective who was investigating Busch. He said for sure they thought they had the guy and were floored when he passed. Subsequent investigation was not done because he had been cleared by the MSP. A convict in the Michigan prison system tried to contact the Flint detective again a few years after Tim's murder saying he had information on Busch and his involvement in the OCCK crimes. He could not get approval to go interview the guy b/c--you guessed it--he had been cleared by the MSP.
Chris Busch was tying boys up in the neighborhood and having sex with them. He somehow managed to stay below the radar. In some cases, Busch's mother allegedly paid-off victims to avoid having them file charges or pursue prosecution. He had some pending child molest stuff in the court system after Tim's murder. These charges were not all in Oakland County. He retained an attorney (more like Daddy Warbucks did), who arranged to have him take a private polygraph. Because of some strange stuff Busch said in the pre-polygraph interview (including that he had been polygraphed in the OCCK case and passed it), the polygrapher wisely decided not to polygraph Busch. During this pre-polygraph interview, however, Busch allegedly admitted to participating in the OCCK killings. This was of course protected by attorney-client privilege b/c the polygrapher had been hired by Busch's attorney.
Busch would molest boys in his parents' home--they were often in Europe for weeks at a time on GM business.
Chris Busch was a big, big-time child molester and liked boys. He had help--I don't kno what this means; whether someone was a lure (teenage boy) or some other adult. Here's my take on it and why I told Cory they still absolutely have to polygraph John. It appears Busch was almost certainly involved in these crimes. If John is involved, it has to be with Busch. I again reiterated that John and Busch lived basically around the corner from each other, both were around the same age--mid-20's, both were outcast/losers with dead-end jobs, living in their parents' homes. Cory admitted it was quite the coincidence. I was assured he will be polygraphed.
Here's my fear--they are waiting on the lab results (fiber and dog hair) and if they get that they might say "f**k it, no need to pursue with John." I also pointed out that Xxxx Xxxxxxxx was a likely victim of Chris Busch as he was in the same age-range as that convict I described above at the time of the crimes.
My Dad said he heard second-hand that something will be made public by the end of the month. He just said it was "double hearsay," but wanted to warn me of the possibility.
I'm sorry to do this, but more later. I will reread this and try to figure out what I missed in the first telling.Xxxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 24, 2011 1:24:37 GMT -5
So many emails about Chris Busch-and you want to know If I think he was involved in the Occk cases---The answer is NO--and I'm not the only one who feels that way-In fact I really don't know anyone who thinks he is -other than a few family members...and a polygraph-er and Cory and Kim-These murders were not done by a group of freaks-ONE PERSON DID THIS DEED...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 3, 2011 12:02:08 GMT -5
Ken, That is correct-The Michigan State Police have never named Chris Busch as a Suspect in The Oakland County Child Murders-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 2:18:31 GMT -5
KAY, In answer to your question of what they have on Busch-Nothing,That I know of -other than he liked little boys...I would tell you if I knew anything..
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Post by WhatSbout on Feb 17, 2013 21:10:49 GMT -5
Helen, was the picture found in Christopher Busch's room checked for prints? Note- Answer~No It Was Not~
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