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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 22, 2011 23:21:40 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 22, 2011 23:25:04 GMT -5
The trail of the Bloody Garrottes-My source, tells me that the ropes found at" Chris Busch's suicide" went to the FBI and were analyzed for numerous substances including Blood--The only thing found on the Boat Ropes, was marine engine oil-the ropes were then returned to the Bloomfield Police Dept. who contacted Chris' Dad and he went to the police dept. and told them they could have the rifle and the ropes-as he did not want them-the Bloomfield police then had him sign two slips saying the same-The ropes did not disappear-the officers cut them up to use for there own boats -So why are people concerned about those ropes they held no evidentiary value -they were not used in any crime-he was not and Occk suspect-but yet after his death- it was announced he had been cleared~of any involvement in the Oakland County Child Murders. So did Bush commit suicide? I have two sources who say other wise...I'm waiting on their posts...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 23, 2011 13:03:01 GMT -5
From a Narrative Report on the Busch interview dated 1-28-77
He states he was only involved with one woman & did have sexual relations with her. He states this was not enjoyable to him and like little boys better. He states he was in London, England from February 7 1976 thru Feb 14, 1976. He FLEW FROM LONDON TO NEW YORK, NEW YORK TO CHICAGO & CHICAGO TO BRISTOL AIRPORT IN FLINT (Caps are mine) He states his parents picked him up at the airport and they went directly home. He (??can't read word) that this could be verified by his passport. Det. Sgt. XXXXXXXXX, of the Alma P.D. was contacted and asked if he would go to the Busches house and check the passport. Busch told him where it was. Lombardi called back and verified Busch's story.
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Post by justice Denied on Aug 4, 2011 14:30:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I get it. I boat slot myself, and I always put my boat ropes on the floor of my bedroom right next to my sox and underwear, where they belong. Give me a break. Ask any one who has a boat where they keep boat ropes - if not on the boat, in the garage. Oily boat ropes on this creep's bedroom floor? In this swanky neighborhood? Great assumption detective.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 4, 2011 14:38:07 GMT -5
I think you missed the whole point-Chris Busch didn't put those ropes there-Ya think?
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Post by Justice Denied on Aug 6, 2011 9:21:50 GMT -5
Exactly. there is so much more here than meets the eye.......the first two detectives on the scene......where are they now? I hope testifying in one of two grand juries.
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Post by MustangMan on Aug 6, 2011 12:24:05 GMT -5
Helen, you elude to the rope's being placed, in Chris' bedroom, by someone other than Chris... was the sketch of Mark Stebbin's also "planted", and as far as that goes, was Chris' death staged to appear like a suicide? by the Police? that would have been very hard to keep secret with all the people that would have had to been involved. or do you suggest that John happen to have been a cohort of Chris' be in his bedroom with a rifle, kill Chris and plant the rope's & sketch? granted Chris was no artist, but could have drawn Mark from a polaroid with reasonable closeness. Can anyone place these two together, besides maybe at a party? And what are the odd's that these two only live a block or two apart from each other, both with the same proclivity toward's molesting and killing children. Chris had far more thing's in the "pro's" column than John, ie... Chris' family had a white dog- white dog hair was found on all four kid's, parent's traveled alot to Europe for long periods of time, hidden driveway at the Busch home, convicted child molester, victim's state being choked till unconscience, one victim saw picture of Tim King in Busch' possesion, up north witness call's police about young kid's being with Chris at same time as Tim's disappearance while Gregory Greene was in jail, his close proximity to the pick up & drop off of all the victim's, possible drawing of victim Mark Stebbins and restraining ropes found in his home, Chris was convicted of molesting James Gunnels, Gunnels states having been in Chris' car hundreds of time's and to the upnorth family cottage where he was taught to shoot a 12 gage shotgun, Gunnels DNA match to hair on Kris M. Jill R. having been shot by a 12 gage shotgun, a Polygraph examiner stating that Chris implicated himself in the Killing's, his powerful wealthy GM Executive father with a mom know to have paid off some of his victim's, Gregory Greene get's major jail time while Chris get's no jail time... this all looks pretty d**ning to me or even a Grand Jury. There's much more circumstancial evidence against Busch being the Killer of at least Tim King, than John. John may have had some relationship with Chris and was privy to some of the info the info he has, but Chris died Nov. 1978, Greene was serving life in prison & the Task Force Disbanded the month after his death, they knew one killer was in jail and the other was dead, there would be no more killing's & there haven't been, but John has lived on. I think and most experts on serial killer's would agree that someone capable of these crime's could never stop. Maybe if there was some DNA of John's or Air tight witness to him being the killer then that would be different, but more than one person confessed to these murder's and John seems to be the only one getting any attention. Police corruption? there all sworn to uphold the law and child killers are top's on any cop's list, so no proof of corruption, but investigative neglagence does seemed to have happened here, from Brooks Paterson on down. I'm hoping the Grand Jury will bring more info to light so that someday this case will be solved, but for now my money's on Chris Busch, accomplice Gregory Greene(who admitted to a cell mate to have killed four children and got away with it) & James Gunnels as having been the young person used as lure kid's close to the car & placing Kris M. body at Bruce Lane. FBI need's to put the screw's to him, because he could be responsible for both the girls deaths, he admitted to having learned to shoot a 12 gage and being in Busch' car, maybe the boy's were for Chris and the girls were for James?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 6, 2011 13:04:40 GMT -5
Ok-MustangMan -I don't have time to answer your post right now-However I want you to think about this-Lets say everything you have said is true(and I can tell you with much certainty that it's not)You tell me which item you have listed -would be the most likely to hold enough weight to convince a Jury to convict in a court of law?
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Post by MustangMan on Aug 6, 2011 15:59:13 GMT -5
Well Helen you know as well as I do that you can't prove guilt on just one piece of evidence in most case's, but I will point to one fact that places Chris Busch at the top of the list. He was a convicted Child Molester of boys of the same age range as Mark Stebbins to Tim King and there were many boys (possibly 30 or more)in the Flint area, Patterson did send detectives to Flint to determine if he might be responsible for boy's being molested in Oakland county. Fact's that came from victim testimony in his conviction were that he drove around with young boy's in his car to lure others to himself. Several stated that they were choked till unconscience. One of his Molestation convictions was against James Gunnels who stated that he too drove around with Chris and went to the upnorth cottage where Chris had taught him how to shoot a 12 gage shotgun. His being a convicted Child Molester and the fact that John, as far as I've seen, hasn't been convicted of anything against children, makes me lean towards Chris as the killer or one of the killer's. Too many coincidences for him not to be a lead suspect. Just my view, not trying to rock the boat, but trying to see how John has managed to not keep killing is hard to do. Could you please help me to see what it is that makes you so sure that John is the killer? Maybe give me a quick list of your fact's that proves this? Thanks and regardless of who killed these innocent children, your having this site where those of us who were around at the time of the killing's can talk and keep their memories alive, is great.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 6, 2011 18:27:05 GMT -5
Look-You will have to just keep posting and I will catch up with your post when I can-I'm very busy this week-end-lots of company-But I will tell you this-I am sitting here looking at two documents-One says-Chris Busch is their main Suspect and The other one says-John Hastings is their main Suspect...So how does that translate to you?-
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Post by MustangMan on Aug 7, 2011 10:08:55 GMT -5
"I am sitting here looking at two documents-One says-Chris Busch is their main Suspect and The other one says-John Hastings is their main Suspect...So how does that translate to you?" Helen, that translate fine to me and from what I've read from Tim's Sister, Cathy should have no problem with that also. What does bother me is that James Gunnels isn't also listed as a possible suspect. Gunnel's DNA on Kris M. was the only Hair found on her, what is a possible explanation for how it got there? Gunnel's definitely knows more than he let on. Is John's inclusion on this list solely due to his admission of guilt in the killings, what hard evidence do they have to think this?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 7, 2011 20:09:05 GMT -5
I'm not going to go over the hard evidence on John at this time-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 7, 2011 20:38:58 GMT -5
Helen, you elude to the rope's being placed, in Chris' bedroom, by someone other than Chris... was the sketch of Mark Stebbin's also "planted" I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS PLANTED-BUT I DO KNOW WHO DREW IT-AND WHO'S WALL IT WAS HANGING -OR I SHOULD SAY TAPED ON FIRST ALONG WITH THREE OTHER DRAWINGS, and as far as that goes, was Chris' death staged to appear like a suicide? YES.I BELIEVE IT WAS STAGED by the Police? NO NOT BY THE POLICE-THEY DIDN'T GET THERE UNTIL AFTER THE EVENT that would have been very hard to keep secret with all the people that would have had to been involved. or do you suggest that John happen to have been a cohort of Chris' be in his bedroom with a rifle, kill Chris and plant the rope's & sketch?- OR HOW ABOUT A BROTHER- granted Chris was no artist, but could have drawn Mark from a polaroid with reasonable closeness. Can anyone place these two together, besides maybe at a party? ACTUALLY THEY CAN'T EVEN PLACE THEM TOGETHER AT THE PARTY-ONLY FRIENDS OF BUSCH' And what are the odd's that these two only live a block or two apart from each other, both with the same proclivity toward's molesting and killing children WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PROOF THAT JOHN MOLESTED CHILDREN. Chris had far more thing's in the "pro's" column than John, ie... Chris' family had a white dog- white dog hair was found on all four kid's OH PLEASE NEARLY EVERYONE IN THAT SUBDIVISION HAD A WHITE DOG AND HAD GOLD CARPET , parent's traveled alot to Europe for long periods of time, hidden driveway at the Busch home HIDDEN DRIVE WAY AT JOHN'S TWO HOMES- AND ONE HOUSE WAS VACANT MOST OF THE TIME-, convicted child molester, victim's state being choked till unconsciousness, one victim saw picture of Tim King in Busch' possesion NO ON E SAW PICTURES OF TIM KING IN BUSCH' POSSESSION up north witness call's police about young kid's being with Chris at same time as Tim's disappearance THAT UP NORTH DEAL THERE WAS NOTHING TO-I KNOW BECAUSE MY HUSBAND WAS ON THE ROAD BLOCK while Gregory Greene was in jail, his close proximity to the pick up & drop off of all the victim's JOHN WAS THE SAME DISTANT TO ALL PICK UPS AND DROP OFFS, possible drawing of victim Mark Stebbins and restraining ropes found in his home THERE WAS NO DNA ON THOSE ROPES, Chris was convicted of molesting James Gunnels, Gunnels states having been in Chris' car hundreds of time's and to the upnorth family cottage where he was taught to shoot a 12 gage shotgun ANYONE WHO GOES UP NORTH LEARNED HOW TO SHOOT A 12 GAGE SHOT GUN- GUNNEL WAS NOT IN CHRIS CAR HUNDREDS OF TIMES-IT WAS 5 TIMES, Gunnels DNA match to hair on Kris M. Jill R. having been shot by a 12 gage shotgun, a Polygraph examiner stating that Chris implicated himself in the Killing'-I DO NOT BELIEVE FOR EVEN ONE MOMENT THAT CHRIS SAID ANYTHING TO ANY Pornographers-, his powerful wealthy GM Executive father with a mom know to have paid off some of his victim's-I'M SURE YOU HAVE COPYS OF CK'S WHERE PEOPLE WERE PAID OFF RIGHT?, Gregory Greene get's major jail time while Chris get's no jail time... this all looks pretty d**ning to me or even a Grand Jury. There's much more circumstancial evidence against Busch-THERE IS NO EVIDENCE CONNECTING CHRIS TO THESE CRIMES THAT I KNOW OF- being the Killer of at least Tim King, than John. John may have had some relationship with Chris and was privy to some of the info the info he has, but Chris died Nov. 1978, Greene was serving life in prison & the Task Force Disbanded the month after his death, they knew one killer was in jail and the other was dead-THIS IS BS-THEY CLOSED IT OUT BECAUSE THE MONEY RAN OUT-NOT FOR ANY OTHER REASON, there would be no more killing's & there haven't been, but John has lived on. I think and most experts on serial killer's would agree that someone capable of these crime's could never stop-WELL IF YOUR MOTIVE WAS JUST TO KILL TWO BOYS AND TWO GIRLS-YOU COULD STOP . Maybe if there was some DNA of John's or Air tight witness to him being the killer then that would be different, but more than one person confessed to these murder's and John seems to be the only one getting any attention. Police corruption? there all sworn to uphold the law and child killers are top's on any cop's list, so no proof of corruption, but investigative neglagence does seemed to have happened here, from Brooks Paterson on down. I'm hoping the Grand Jury will bring more info to light so that someday this case will be solved, but for now my money's on Chris Busch, accomplice Gregory Greene(who admitted to a cell mate to have killed four children and got away with it) & James Gunnels as having been the young person used as lure kid's close to the car & placing Kris M. body at Bruce Lane. FBI need's to put the screw's to him, because he could be responsible for both the girls deaths, he admitted to having learned to shoot a 12 gage and being in Busch' car, maybe the boy's were for Chris and the girls were for James?YOU KNOW MOST OF WHAT YOU HAVE HAD TO SAY HERE _IS OF NO IMPORTANT's-CHRIS BUSCH WAS NOT CAPABLE OF THE OAKLAND COUNTY CHILD MURDERS----ALSO FROM NOW ON ONE QUESTION PER POSTS-IN FACT IF YOU JUST LOOK OVER THE INTERNET AND THIS SITE ALL YOUR ANSWERS WOULD BE THERE FOR YOU-
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Post by internetresearch on Aug 10, 2011 6:01:13 GMT -5
Helen - I may know where Dyer Grossman went, or rather, who Dyer Grossman became. How can I get this info to the Grand Jury? Can you see my email? Can you give it to "mybrotherskeeper"?
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Post by Helen Dagner on Aug 10, 2011 11:30:06 GMT -5
Hi internetresearch,No I can not see your email-I don't have any of that turned on -on this site-I'm sure Mybrotherskeeper will see your post-If not you could go over to Topix and post the same message and if she is interested she will contact you-as far as the Grand Juries being interested in the Info that you posted-They wouldn't be-all that Fox Island-Cass Corridor stuff is a dead issue. Sorry-
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