Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 18:08:11 GMT -5
10. Chris Busch DID have an obsession for photographic child porn and/or imagery of children sexually; and was caught with same as evidence against him, as well as the presence of a charcoal pencil drawing of what appears to be Mark Stebbins as determined by Stebbins brother, and others at his suicide scene. The very person he took a polygraph test about killing, and was reported by Greene to have killed in the woods. Hogwash-- Marks brother does not think the drawing is of his brother -he believes it is a drawing of several different boys ( Which I believe also) Note: "Chris Busch DID have an obsession for photographic child porn and/or imagery of children sexually; and was caught with same as evidence against him" Evidence against him as a pervert, but not of being a killer...
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 18:10:06 GMT -5
11. Chris Busch DID have residence in a home near the abduction sites with carpet that matched the fibers found on all four victim's socks / pants. Further, a dog(s) with the same color hairs as well found on these four children. Note: So did everyone In Oakland County... Note: It has been proven-that nothing you named match anything of Busch'
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 18:12:53 GMT -5
12. Chris Busch DID & HAS received preferential treatment in the court system compared to John Q. Public, and despite all these above variables and MORE, the OCP refuses to investigate this client of her former best friend in deceased Attorney Jane Burgess; if not for other reasons.Note: None of this is evidence to a serial child killing-it is just a bunch of garbage that you say-thinking you can pound it into some one -who will do something about it-- Do you honestly think even one thing on this list would make it through the Court system--?? Boy you could never take on a live suspect,you would get eaten alive...
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 18:15:14 GMT -5
Truth Dudes Final statement-Is just as Bazaar as his questions-* The King family and law enforcement have even more than this which all point in one direction, and mathematically exceed to the minds of a former FBI agent, and highly experienced career lawyers; that Busch and associates were clearly involved in this case. NOTE: Well they do not have more then you presented,because you present what they have--which is NADA-The FBI AGENT IS WRONG ABOUT JILL'S BIKE LOCATION and we still remember those highly experienced career lawyers-and they could well be in their field-but their field is not Serial Murders,so again I must say-Jessica had good reason to pass on Busch,there is absolutely nothing that points to him or any of his buds as being child killers-they are perverts--and that is a whole different kettle of fish...
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 21, 2014 19:37:38 GMT -5
Helen,How did you know that Chris Busch wasn't the Occk? Note- Karen,welcome! I see your new here-I guess one of the reasons was because I was looking into Busch a long time before anyone started calling him a suspect-I had a phone Interview with John's Father in 2002,and he mention the name in answer to a question of mine-I never gave it another thought until the end of 2003-and then I started to wonder about this family and if John had anything to do with the Boys that Mr. Hastings had mention-I could find no connection,but then I started to wonder,why 3 of the boys were already dead,and a light bulb came on,that John had told me he knew someone that had commit ed suicide on the same date as my husband only 5 years earlier-sure enough I looked up the boys deaths and Chris 'death certificate gave the same date as Wallys-then I started talking to the former neighbors,ect ect ect. and I started researching all the things that people were telling me about him-and found out that none of the dates that -they said he did this and that matched-I looked into his Pedophilia activity and saw that a lot had been made up and didn't have matching court records-How ever I did not come up with the Documents that we have just posted on the site of his Big break from L.Brooks Patterson-had I seen those-well who knows? But I definitely knew he wasn't the Oakland County Child Killer-He could never of pulled this off-He had a soft brain and the only time he used it was for his sex acts-He really didn't have the ability to come in out of the rain-and he was a very gross individual,who was unkempt-weight more than 250 pounds-dirty hair all the time that covered his face-It just goes on and on-When the public started to talk about him-years later-I went back over his file-and everything remained the same-and I talked to even more people-plus I have always had a feeling when I'm wrong about someone who is accused of being the Occk and with Chris-I had the feeling that he was not connected with these murders in any way-Some times a Gut feeling is better that a whole stack of Information~
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 23, 2014 0:52:13 GMT -5
Helen is that a rifle shell sitting on the desk so nicely right on top so that it will be easily seen by investigators? I like how it stands there in the middle of that little shovel on display. Geo---Note-Yes and the lighter sitting on top of it-is to draw attention to it-as soon as you enter the room-
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 23, 2014 1:18:58 GMT -5
Dave ,yes I was Aware ,that the same brand of Booze was found at McKinney's Murder Site--I don't want to go into this to much at this time as it is discussed in and up-coming video--But here is a little line about it--------------------Decades later, murder case resurfaces-------- BY GREG KOWALSKI STAFF WRITER
Originally published January 5, 2006
Someone knows who killed John McKinney.
Even 28 years after he was shot in his Birmingham art gallery, McKinney is remembered. His story recently was added to the gallery of unsolved murders at www.unsolved-crimes.com, the Internet site operated by Unsolved-Crimes International.
Formed about two years ago, the organization is a cross between Cold Case Files and America's Most Wanted. It highlights about 90 unsolved murders and missing people, seeking clues.
It was created "so that people would not be forgotten," said David Webb, who serves as the media consultant for the site. "A crime might capture national attention for a while, but if there is no arrest, people lose interest."
Which is how the story of John McKinney came to be featured.
In 1977 McKinney, 50, was a prominent owner of the Birmingham Gallery at 1025 Haynes. He was found shot in the head in the gallery on the morning of Sept. 20.
There were no signs of a robbery, although one hanging fiber art work was missing.
Clues were sparse. The small office in the gallery where McKinney's body had been found was not ransacked, and two drinks that had been poured were found undisturbed.
Indications were that McKinney had been struck in the head with a blunt object then shot.
"There is no motive that we are aware of," police Chief Edward Ostin said at the time.
The only lead police had to go on was that McKinney had been seen at dinner the previous day, hours before he was killed, in the company of a woman at the Landmark restaurant on Maple and Livernois. She was described as 30 to 35 years old, 5 feet, 8 inches and medium build.
The description came from an employee at the Landmark who was hypnotized to help draw out details of the description.
Police theorized that a man was involved in the murder and that McKinney knew the killer. He may have been struck as he was talking to the woman, then shot.
But by whom?
The question has never been answered. There was nothing in McKinney's life out of the ordinary. Indeed, he spent his Sundays as a chaplain at the Bloomfield Hills Nursing Center.
"I never advertise being a chaplain," he said in a story in the Birmingham Eccentric in February 1976. "You can't outgive God. The more I do there, the more I'm blessed in the gallery and all parts of my life."
Although McKinney's death drew a lot of attention, it quickly drifted into the background. He died in the midst of the series of Oakland County child killings that also have baffled police for nearly 30 years, and the media focus was on that.
McKinney's killer was never found. The mysterious woman was never identified. The case went cold.
ON THE WEB Unsolved-Crime International was founded by a woman in New Jersey whose friend was murdered. After making contact in a Yahoo newsgroup, a small group of volunteers was formed to highlight various unsolved murders and highlight missing persons.
People submit information about the crimes. The Unsolved-Crimes volunteers verify the facts with local police, then post information on the site.
"People call in with tips," Webb said. "We refer them to the police."
Admittedly, the chances of breaking a nearly 30-year-old murder case are slim. But that's only part of the purpose of Unsolved-Crimes. Remembering the victims is the other.
It's part of Unsolved-Crimes International's mission statement: "We are here to help the survivors and those who no longer can speak for themselves. They will not be forgotten."
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 1:50:46 GMT -5
At the end of 2003-Tobias and I had a phone discussion about those "Hairs" He told me at the time,that he was looking at one right now-( He was at home when we talked) He described that it looked wiry looking- I never got a chance to ask him more about it as he passed away in January, 2004-- I did wonder why he had that evidence at home --?? Tuesday, February 18, 2003
Charles V. Tines / The Detroit News
Jerry Tobias, left, with Oakland County Sheriff's Detective Mark Newman, calls finding the Oakland child killer "my obsession." Tobias, a former police officer, was a member of the original task force 27 years ago.
Police hold out hope of finding '70s child killer
Technology, forensic tools may lead to break in case
By Mike Martindale / The Detroit News
SOUTHFIELD -- Jerry Tobias has this dream in which his telephone rings and when he answers, it's the Oakland County Child Killer on the other end of the line.
"I guess you could call it my fantasy, my obsession," said Tobias, a licensed counselor and ex-police officer who was part of the original task force looking into the unsolved slayings of four children 27 years ago.
"But anyone who was involved back then or since would like to resolve what happened," said Tobias, 73, who has never really stopped working on the case. "We owe it to their families, the children, and to the community."
New technology and forensic tools may help solve the deaths of two boys and two girls, aged 10 to 12 years old, which have haunted Oakland County for nearly three decades.
It began back in 1976. At about 1:30 p.m. Feb. 15 that year, 12-year-old Mark Douglas Stebbins said goodbye to his mother at an American Legion Hall in Ferndale and walked home to watch a movie on TV. That was the last she ever saw him alive.
Stebbins' body was found four days later in a Southfield shopping mall parking lot along 10 Mile. An autopsy determined the boy had been smothered to death, sexually assaulted and likely was bound at the wrists and ankles.
Stebbins' death was the first of four between 1976 and 1977. Children disappeared, one by one, from their suburban neighborhoods and their bodies were discovered days later, miles away from their homes. Three were suffocated and one girl was killed by a shotgun blast.
There was no indication that the girls had been sexually molested, but both boys were.
In the months following each new death, paranoia grew. Cars lined up for blocks outside school yards to escort children home. Children were told not to go anywhere alone and to report anything suspicious.
An unprecedented task force made up of several Oakland County police agencies and state police was formed and began the laborious process of collecting and running down an estimated 20,000 tips that poured in on the case. A $100,000 reward was offered and everyone, it seemed, knew who the killer was -- or at least thought they did.
There were a number of unusual similarities in the cases, some made public, others kept secret.
Detective Sgt. David Wurtz of the Oakland County Sheriff's Department said the public needs to know this is not a reopening of the high-profile cases. But all homicides, he said, are never closed until the guilty person is found.
"There isn't a week that goes by that we don't get a call from somebody," Wurtz said. "We know there is somebody out there who knows something that goes beyond speculation -- maybe a friend or family member who has kept quiet."
Wurtz said all evidence, stored for years by the department, has been turned over to the state police lab for examination.
"They're re-evaluating evidence with our new technology," Wurtz said. "We're doing stuff now that was unheard of when I was a young patrolman."
Automatic fingerprint identification, DNA, electronic databases and even e-mail are tools that could be used in the case, he said.
Wurtz noted that every investigator who has ever worked the case has his own theory about the killer and why he stopped.
"He's dead, incarcerated or removed from public exposure in some way," Wurtz said. "Or, he's left the country. The most widely held belief is the person has left the area because we don't believe this is the type of the crime someone would quit on their own unless they were incapacitated in some way."
For years a composite drawing and description of a blue American Motors Gremlin seen near the scene of the last disappearance -- that of Timothy King, 11, of Birmingham -- has stuck in the public mind.
Wurtz notes how news reports of the unsolved murders generate dozens of new tips and he doesn't believe in just one suspect.
"I think if you get too carried away on one thing or one operating theory then you try to put square pegs in round holes," he said.
Lt. Ive Edwards of the Michigan State Police's Northville post agrees. Edwards stressed that the ongoing investigation will not focus on a small number of strong suspects, but rather on all the police reports and interviews that were conducted over the year and summarily filed away.
"We're going back to the very start," Edwards said. "We want to put all records, all reports into a common database which we can then examine for commonalities. I don't care if someone was cleared or not, we're going to take another look at them. If only to determine why they were cleared. Or in some cases, why not."
That is under way with the help of two clerks from the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office, he said, adding "it's going to take some time."
Wayne County became involved because King's body was dumped along a road in Livonia. All the other victims' bodies were found near or along roads in Oakland County.
Advancements in forensic technology in 2003 will play a large role in the investigation, Edwards said.
"We have also transferred a large amount of evidence to our Michigan State Police labs in Lansing to undergo extensive forensic testing. DNA, fingerprints, and more."
That work will be headed by Charles Barna, whose investigators will isolate DNA from semen, blood and hair.
"This serves two purposes: examination now of what we have and preservation of evidence for the future in hopes that technology, and our ability to use it, increases even more in the future," Edwards said.
Edwards noted that when the investigation of the deaths began 27 years ago, the work was done piecemeal by various departments.
"It was all pre-computer and we have boxes of records and reports that will benefit from being put onto a common computer data base."
Computer sorting could conceivably compare thousands of names, descriptions, places, events that would be humanly impossible to do.
And while all hold out hope that science will be able to do what task force could not, some like Tobias, believes it will finally come down to old-fashioned police work and perhaps that one phone call.
You can reach Mike Martindale at (248) 647-7226 or email@example.com.
Image Charles V. Tines / The Detroit News
New technology and forensic tools may help solve the deaths of two boys and two girls, aged 10 to 12 years old, which have haunted Oakland County for nearly three decades.
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 1:58:20 GMT -5
You can see these photos on our site--I could not believe my own eyes when I first saw the drawing of the woman--It was an absolute match to Johns Mother-others who viewed it also said the same- ***"The only lead police had to go on was that McKinney had been seen at dinner the previous day, hours before he was killed, in the company of a woman at the Landmark restaurant on Maple and Livernois. She was described as 30 to 35 years old, 5 feet, 8 inches and medium build.
The description came from an employee at the Landmark who was hypnotized to help draw out details of the description."
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 24, 2014 23:15:32 GMT -5
I'm only running this about Spike,because he was one of the Occk players and because I found it very Interesting That he was offered a contract by the Detroit Tigers -Yes he was that good!! However he turned it down!!-Tobias Interviewed Spike,in 1977-78 and Spike told him he had taken Tim to Tiger baseball games-I haven't located my notes yet on this conversation with Tobias,but even when I do,this is probably all I will be posting on Spike- *Walter D McKenzie "Spike" Birth: abt 1929 - Stratford Ont, Canada Arrival: 29 May 1929 - Detroit, Michigan Here's what I found on Spike McKenzie in the Detroit Free Press Death Notices available through our databases at the library and it sounds like it answers your question about him:
McKENZIE W D " SPIKE " Age 76, February 7, 2006. Proud Rotarian, Exemplary Peddler. Husband of the late Marion. Father of Michael, Ann and David. Brother of the late Jane McGarrity. Father-in-law of Carmen McKenzie and John Wischnewsky. Grandfather of Samuel, Maya and Ella. Dear friend of many. Memorial Service, Wm. R. Hamilton Co., 820 E. Maple Rd, Birmingham, Saturday, February 11th at 2 p.m. Memorial visitation, Hamilton Co., Friday, 3-7 p.m. Tributes may be made to The Salvation Army. Hope this helps.
//// Notes-Secure, heated underground parking structure-Spike had an early investment in this property-1972-However he did not live there in 1976-77-http://www.trulia.com/property/1063940465-42160-Woodward-Ave-Bloomfield-Hills-MI-48304////Spike (W. Douglas) McKenzie and his wife Marion, lived at 554 Wimbleton Drive, Birmingham, MI in 1976 and 1977 according to our Birmingham City Directories for those years. Take a look at the location of their home on Google Maps— Categories: Insurance Agent And Broker Address 2855 Coolidge Place Suite 106 Troy, MI 48084
Phone (248) xxx-xxxx
Fax (248) xxx-xxxx
He is also in the Wolf Book-Talking about Tim King-also in several Newspaper articels he spoke of Tim-and he did take Tim-fishing-camping- and to Tiger ball game-ect-ect-ect-His son Mike is one of the three boys who were with Tim just before his abduction-Spike also knew all the other families-thru Insurance- Boys Club--Scouts-Salvation Army-ect-ect-ect---and he had contact with buildings in every abduction and drop off area-in 1976-77 Year Founded: 1952 Annual Revenues: 130000 Employees: 2 YOU CAN NOT GET ANYONE -TO ANSWER ANY OF THE RELAVENT QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM....Because he was such a good guy-Gave gifts freely to children-like Hoola Hoops-ect ect....He belonged to nearly every organization there was in the area & was an active member in them ALL!- I wish I would have known about him sooner-as I had a lot of questions I would have liked to ask him. If anyone has Tobias notes-you may want to look Spike up,so that we can have the rest of the story...
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 25, 2014 2:07:02 GMT -5
Helen,I know you said before that Busch's door was open to the garage, but seeing the picture of it, really drives that point home. It wasn't just "left open", that screen door was open using the slider lock on the mechanism to keep it open. That was an intentional thing. Why would someone do that and then go to bed? I suppose if he was that drunk he could have forgotten it. Usually that would be done only temporarily for like carrying in groceries or something...or left open for someone to make a fast escape to be able to get out of the house, hit the overhead door to close, while you quickly got out underneath of it. With 4 times the legal limit of alcohol in him, that kitchen is way too clean, surely too clean to need the maid to finally return. *
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 26, 2014 0:06:04 GMT -5
Mark Stebbins lay face up in the snow, dressed in the same clothing he wore four days earlier, the last time his mother saw him. His hood was pulled over his blond hair. His coat was buttoned wrong. He looked peaceful, like a child making angels in the snow, and unharmed except for the marks on his wrists made by the cuffs on his jacket. He had been suffocated, his body dumped along a low brick wall separating the parking lots of a Southfield shopping center and an office building. He was 12 years old. The police covered him with a blanket and began the painstaking search for clues and his killer....