|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 11, 2012 9:49:27 GMT -5
There is no way Busch killed himself. That scene is way too clean. How does one kill one's self with a shotgun with a clean shot and have the gun land neatly by one's side? There is no blood spatter anywhere, not on the walls, not on the bed.Don
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 11, 2012 13:22:10 GMT -5
Careful…he has an “aura” of a “Guardian Angel”. OMG…..is this guy for real? Frank
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 11, 2012 13:46:57 GMT -5
Ok-I have lots of messages in about all the people who-work in the am-and stayed up till 11 to watch the channel 4 defenders report and there was nothing on--I will run just this one of them--"I think there was a lot of other “breaking news”. Murder-suicide in Bloomfield Hills, fire in Novi, election in New Hampshire, etc. They barely mentioned the Tamara Green ruling at 11:00 P.M.. Still, they should not mislead the public. There were other reports they could have canned, instead." Dave
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 11, 2012 14:28:47 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 0:59:01 GMT -5
Helen,Is Busch connected in anyway to the Oakland County Child Murders ? Jack-----*I truly think that there are two different things going on here Jack--I think we have the Child Murders and I think we have the family revenge murders...Do I think John knew Busch? I don't see how he couldn't of--But do I think Busch had a part in the child killings-No I don't...
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 1:04:00 GMT -5
Helen, Why do you run the King information If you do not think he is involved? Rita------*Well because the Kings believe what they are saying to be true-and they have a right to express their opinions-they have different sources-than I do-so therefore -they could have different Info...
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 1:07:09 GMT -5
Helen, Are you still angry with Don Studt? Mike-----* No I'm over it-life is to short to hold a grudge-and he really did do a lot of work on this case...
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 1:08:38 GMT -5
Well what about Cory. Don---* I don't think I will even go there Don....
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 1:11:14 GMT -5
Helen, I don't know how you can do this occk stuff ,day after day. Pat---* Well Pat-It is getting to be something, I do not care to do....
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 4:20:23 GMT -5
Lilly-posted this at Topix-and it is such a great post-I decided to steal it
| #7839 1 hr ago # 7 The hiking boots look new
# 8 He liked predators - the big round picture of the cat and the animal print blanket. I am told that one of the images or series of images shown to offenders in the sex offender treatment program is to see if they are aroused is some kind of hunt-stalking and kill type scenario by animals. I don’t know if this is true. I will look it up to be sure.
# 9 Will someone please look at this one again. It seems to me there is weightiness to the blankets, more so than normal if they were just rolled up. It looks like it would if someone was wrapped in a blanket-like a butt-thigh and leg impression. It doesn’t look like an empty bed. Am I seeing this wrong?
# 12 There is no blood splatter at all.
# 14 I used a magnifier and still can’t make out the writing in the personal directory. Why was a picture taken of this? I would give my eye teeth to know what it says.
# 15 This looks staged. Busch was obviously a slob. The maid hadn’t been there for days and yet the table is spotless it even shines. Everything is neat and tidy. The tops are even on the ink pens. It’s as if it was cleaned and then every thing placed just-so. While the rest of the room has crap lying all over.
# 16 The .22 clip and box of bullets are obviously interesting and so nicely placed there but the 2 coffee cups neatly (too neatly) side-by-side are more so.
# 20 I have to agree. The drawing of the little boy does not look like something that hung there unframed for a long time. It is very fresh looking.
# 21 The electric clock says 9:20. The chair is also an animal print and the bedding is folded over the way it is in # 9 but this time blocked out so I have to think that # 9 is an unblocked picture of the wrapped body. Again no blood splatter. A rifle at close range is going to leave splatter.
# 22 Is that police officer holding a hand gun or holster?
# 23 I don’t believe this scene. If he killed himself in that room and even if he held pillows around his head before pulling the trigger, he would have lost that control the minute he fired and there would be a lot of blood. Head wounds bleed profusely and there is no blood. Also the one set of shutters left open are directly across from his death scene for anyone looking in to see.
# 24 They said he’d been there like that for days. Did he turn off all the lights before killing himself? None of them are on.
# 25 It does look like a sleeping bag a small one right along side of his bed.
# 26 I don’t believe this man died in that room. At least not by a gun shot.
|
|
|
Post by Casual Observer on Jan 12, 2012 9:17:56 GMT -5
Interesting observation about the predatory cats in conjunction with Busch's predatory life. I do have to wonder, though, if the decor is more his mother's decision than his. He went to school in Europe and was not home a lot. His mother could have decided the animal theme. Over all, the room is surprisingly shabby so I'm guessing here.
Although, one of the pictures looks to be of the hallway, which has ornate furniture and wallpaper compared to Busch's room which seems shabby.
The body is still in the bed. We know it is Busch, why black it out?
Agree completely about the lack of blood spatter. Not only would there be blood, the shotgun would have produced a significant blast, not a neat hole between his eyes. Although the picture isn't public, the bullet hole was "clean" (as far as I have been told by a family member who viewed the photo). My questions (with little gun knowledge) are, how does someone shoot themselves cleanly between the eyes with a shotgun? How did he manage to get the shotgun to lay neatly at his side?
Lights off? Good point!
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 11:27:42 GMT -5
Lilly
Denver, CO
| #7852 12 min ago 1 Thanks Reasoning and HD
Like the rest of this case it smells. I am not a forensics person either but we are not idiots.
Anyway, there isn’t anything here that adds up. If someone took a small hand gun and shot a tomato is would leave a mess all over that room. A large weapon and a human head would not leave a clean surround, especially with no control as in a suicide. Now someone holding pillows over and around the victim and using a smaller more focused weapon might get this results; but what would be the purpose, silence? And once the moment of possible splatter was over the body would still bleed out. The mattress would have been soaked at the very least.
This is too clean and now I think it’s possible he was killed somewhere else and left there to be found. This doesn’t even look like a murder scene. It looks like a dumping scene. And to add one more layer of suspicion to the investigation, not that it needs it or I want there to be one but the police would have known this didn’t wash as a suicide.
Is it possible the ropes were used to tie Busch at some point before during or after? If he already bled out somewhere else he could have been rolled up and tied to move him?
And I still think it’s strange that the brother waited for the police to go in the house. Do you think he may have walked around the house and looked into his brother’s window and already knew what the police would find? I think it’s possible he not only knew what they were going to find, I think he knew why. That was a strange and more than a dysfunctional family. It is possible Busch was simply living his life repeating his own “learned” behavior. It’s possible his brother knew it too. I don’t know any guys that if the maid called them, they wouldn’t just go in the house and see where the hell their brother was and why he wasn’t answering the door.
Is it possible this picture was either done during an assault on a boy or from a very detailed memory of one, and as you point out by an actual trained artist. But I don’t believe it just popped out of someone’s imagination unless they too had a similar experience or witnessed one. Maybe someone very talented but also very much overlooked and vulnerable to anyone who showed him attention and gave him praise and encouragement? Maybe the artist was of such a mentality as many needy and neglected kids that he would have become a victim/victimizer?
And while I know I keep harping about this larger circle of pedophiles and their connection to each other and I certainly know that Hojnaki wasn’t the killer, he was among them and his suicide scene and his family’s reaction was very similar. Even to the degree of their being a strange picture hanging in his apartment that his family didn’t recognize as having been there before.
These pictures of Busch’s suicide were never supposed to be seen much less analyzed by anyone. So the sloppiness of this is understandable. But the explanation doesn’t hold water. Also a 616 area code was back then all of lower Western Michigan. It is today the greater Grand Rapids area.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 11:31:48 GMT -5
Reasoning
Macomb, MI
| #7847 3 hrs ago [QUOTE who="Lilly# 14 I used a magnifier and still can’t make out the writing in the personal directory. Why was a picture taken of this? I would give my eye teeth to know what it says. [/QUOTE]
It appears to be names and phone numbers. The only thing I can make out for sure is the bottom one has an area code of (616). At the time they just filed this as a suicide so probably didn't record such things as this list. Reasoning
Macomb, M | #7848 3 hrs ago [QUOTE who="Lilly# 20 I have to agree. The drawing of the little boy does not look like something that hung there unframed for a long time. It is very fresh looking. [/QUOTE]
Helen had an enlargement of this sketch on her web site. It does not look like it was done by a typical artist. The drawing has advanced techniques of textures sometimes called hatching. It is not typical and is advanced and must have been done by someone that had various art training. Does anyone from that family (Chris Busch) know anything about that sketch and where it came from? EnoughAlready | #7849 1 hr ago
1 Excellent points people!
I think we can all agree there is something not quite right with the scene.
Helen, you did have a very detailed copy, or at least write up, of the suicide report. It was on the old site so it may be hard to find. I can't remember the details of the gun shot residue though...sorry.
We KNOW, this is fact, that Busch was involved with Fox Island. He was caught with 8 reels of film and facing charges. To keep himself out of trouble would he have rolled over on the big dogs? My guess is "YES". We have to remember, this was 1978, the same laws were not in effect, how serious of a charge was it to have those pictures?
As for the sketch, everyone is looking at it as a victim, but what if it's supposed to represent Chris himself? What if he was tormented by what he had done, or more likely, the consequences of those actions? Wasn't he seeing a shrink?
And finally, I agree with Lilly….where is the blood splatter? I’m not a CSI person, but wouldn’t the blood splatter be less if he was already dead? From the position of the shotgun (what you can see of it) it almost looks like he was sleeping with it for self protection, like you see in the old westerns or war movies.
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 11:38:34 GMT -5
#7851 1 hr ago
Reasoning wrote: <quoted text> Helen had an enlargement of this sketch on her web site. It does not look like it was done by a typical artist. The drawing has advanced techniques of textures sometimes called hatching. It is not typical and is advanced and must have been done by someone that had various art training. Does anyone from that family (Chris Busch) know anything about that sketch and where it came from?
Hatching is a shading technique used in both drawing and painting, where tone is built up through a series of thin strokes or lines that are more or less parallel. The lines can be short or long. How close together they are influences the tone, with closer lines creating darker tones. Cross hatching is hatching done in two directions, one across the other.John did hatching in his architecture drawings-and this is interesting-when he drew Jills bike and the dumpster at Marks drop off-these were done with what he called an architecture pen-those objects stood right out on the map drawings=I said how do you make them look like that? His answer was I have had 6 years of art school-and we all know that his sister said he over seas to draw nothing but buildings and they were fantastic--Yet at Johns Interview when Studt question John about his drawings--Johns Immediate response was =I don't do any drawing any more-I haven't since 1970-Studt ask him if he had any of his drawings around that he could take a look at-he said no he had got rid of them all---Now he didn't stop drawing in 1970---as the 1976=77 girl friend recalled a drawing of a building with children hanging out the windows-when he took her in there-also when the lady that eventually bought the house-finally was able to enter his bed room-also in 77 there were the drawings of children taped to the wall-with one missing--
|
|
|
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 12, 2012 12:26:39 GMT -5
Lilly
Denver, CO Reply » | Report Abuse | Judge it! | #7856 21 min ago
EnoughAlready wrote: Excellent points people! I think we can all agree there is something not quite right with the scene. Helen, you did have a very detailed copy, or at least write up, of the suicide report. It was on the old site so it may be hard to find. I can't remember the details of the gun shot residue though...sorry. We KNOW, this is fact, that Busch was involved with Fox Island. He was caught with 8 reels of film and facing charges. To keep himself out of trouble would he have rolled over on the big dogs? My guess is "YES". We have to remember, this was 1978, the same laws were not in effect, how serious of a charge was it to have those pictures? As for the sketch, everyone is looking at it as a victim, but what if it's supposed to represent Chris himself? What if he was tormented by what he had done, or more likely, the consequences of those actions? Wasn't he seeing a shrink? And finally, I agree with Lilly….where is the blood splatter? I’m not a CSI person, but wouldn’t the blood splatter be less if he was already dead? From the position of the shotgun (what you can see of it) it almost looks like he was sleeping with it for self protection, like you see in the old westerns or war movies.
I think you are right-on and it is possible he turned snitch. I believe he could give up a lot of people and some of them were really big fish. I also think it is possible his friends the two Johns were somehow involved in this. God everything just keeps going in a circle and leading back to and into the same people. Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI | #7857 12 min ago Lilly---before I forget-I'm not sure I could go a long with Chris being killed some where else-as he weight more than 260 pounds-that would be a job-to move him... Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI 1 min ago Lilly-Chris couldn't have drawn that picture as he didn't have the talent-Yes he was an Informant against the Fox Island group-I will go into this more later -when I can turn on the lights-anyway-about the shutters being open in just that one area and the lights not being on-my first thought was -that someone open them to get enough light to hang the drawing-to make sure it would appear that Chris was looking at it from his bed--also this does bother me-a lot--The drawing was tacked up with a stick pen or a fine penny nail that would not leave a hole in the wall-Who would do that but a family member-who did not want any holes in the walls??
|
|