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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 2:21:51 GMT -5
Patrick T. Coffey Censured by American Polygraph Association-Who Knew?-Helen, Is this the guy who gave the Kings all the Hot Tips about Busch and McKinney? Doug/ Note -Yep that would be him...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 2:26:29 GMT -5
Helen, Is that the "NO LIE" Guy Mark- Note- Yes that is one and the same...Surprise-Surprise...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 9:45:21 GMT -5
Helen you claim you only contacted Mr. Robinson (Jill's dad) in 1992. However Studt's police report claims you contacted Mr. Robinson and Mr. King in 1992. Is there a possibility that someone from John H. family contacted Mr. King and portrayed being you to discredit you? Is there any details on what discussion was made with Mr. King in 1992 in the reports? Listening to your video I can say that you have a very distinct voice. I wonder if Mr. King remembers anything about the discussion from 1992? Sgt. Note-Well I haven't checked into it since receiving the FOIA Documents that state this...But I know I never called him,that I am sure of...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 16:24:35 GMT -5
Helen, 1) I think people back then always called Big Beaver and Quarton interchangeably. I know I did. However, why did he spel Kri's name "Chris"? 2) He's got Dr. Danto labeled in the Cranbrook living area on that map. Ironically, not too far from where Tony Mitchell lived. Lots of money in that area. 3) Just my hunch but I think John knew Tim from Little League baseball (and possibly hockey). Many of Tim's Little League games and practices were probably played at Poppleton Park. 4) Did he have Tim's drop off on any of the maps??? Did I miss it? 5) I have no idea why he has Barnum and Valley Woods schools listed on the map nor the dot on the opposite side of I-75. Did he hide there to watch police discover the body??? 6) Why would he would even mention Tony Mitchell with the other child murder sites including Sheila Shrock and Cynthia Cadiuex. It doesn't make sense to me. If he fell off the Water tower it wasn't murder, unless he was pushed. Hmm.......... 7) Why did he label the "Vineyards" on the map? Did he work there? Did Busch work there? Greg
-----Original Message-----
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 16:27:40 GMT -5
Helen, In your latest video I think you failed to mention that Tony Mitchell (14 at the time) was more a friend of brother Tom's (14-15 at the time), not really Johns (almost 18). You had told me that the entire Hastings family had attended Tony's funeral,except John. Hmm.... Why didn't they call the police department when Tony fell off the water tower if they were there when it happened? The article states that a policeman, Gil Fowler found young Tony due to the bike. How cruel of the Hastings! I really think the key to all of this may be Tom Hastings. How much would it cost for LE to go to Pensacola, FL and give him a lie detector test? Are the police really this shadow? As far as I'm concerned, when L. Brooks Patterson passes away or retires his primary legacy will be that he didn't catch the OCCK. Very sad. Xxxxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 16:29:19 GMT -5
I think this building may just be a marker for his map. He certainly knows where the police stations are located.
-----Original Message-----Mike
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 17:02:18 GMT -5
Was Danto's Office on Big Beaver? I have been to that Troy building in the past ten years and know that its now a professional building with several accounting firms (eg. Doeren Mayhew), lawyers, psycholigists and others. Also, did the Hastings brothers break the law by not reporting Tony''s death to the police? Now, Tom was only 14 or 15 years old. However, John being 17, almost 18 should have known better. Wasn't not reporting the death a crime, at least in John's case? He was beginning his senior year in high school when it happened. Did they even tell their parents when they got home or did they jump under the covers and go to bed? Wasn't anyone else with the Hastings brothers and Tony on that Tower at the time? Something smells very rotten to me. Xxxxx
-----Original Message-----
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 18:05:07 GMT -5
Helen, OK. I don't believe the Topix stuff with Les's comments,his sister or that this Gary guy is the killer, even if Les himself believes it to be true. Can you give me some details on these three and their backgrounds? I want to do some research and see if I can find any information about them. A lot of folks believed or still believe that their friends, neighbors or acquaitances were the killers. However, your theory is different, IMO for several reasons. John's details to you in Alpena (what Kristine was wearing, chicken bone, other info., etc.) . Your background checks on the Hastings family history, with dates and details during the past 20 years (their divorce proceedings, passports, etc.). The barrel type on the shotgun which John told you about. The second Hastings house that John occupied by himself. John's motive which he told you was to get back at society for his hard luck. The guy (Alpena Witness) at the Big Boy who overheard your December 26, 1991 conversation with John and the fact that he heard John emphatcially say to you "Don't you understand? I killed those kids!". He sounds VERY credible to me on your video. The entire Hastings family's odd behavior since the murders. Your police background and access to sources during the past 20 years. I have been following your story and the Hastings for 5-6 years now and still very much believe your story. I do think there are some details that could still be missing. For example, John was the killer but did he have help from his siblings, etc.? Was the youngest brother a lure for the kids such as knowing Tim from the Adams Road school play, Wille Wonka and the Chocolate Factory where they may have crossed paths? The irony that Hastings lived a long golf shot away from Busch. This proximity has astonomical odds!!!! Did the Hastings know Busch; especially the youngest??? Was he abused by Busch? Who really killed Chris Busch with a shotgun, while having a .41 alcohol level. He was most likely passed out with that much booze in his system. How about that drawing of Mark Stebbings with hidden codes? We do know John was very much into art and may have worked at John McKinney's art studio. I could go on and on but will stop here. I am convicnced that John is the OCCK. Thanks for keeping this story alive. I know you take shots from some on the message boards and from LE types who are arrogant and can't " see the trees thru the forest". All of LE is not like that. I am hoping some brave LE person reads this and follows thru by investing all of the Hastings and putting the interrogative screws to them. Undoubtedly, new details will emerge from questioning, if interrogated properly. I know the Kings, yourself or even myself would LOVE to have a crack and interviewing this family. IMO, your are wonderful to stick to your guns and continue to investgate these murders so that you can help find the truth in these cases for the families (the Kings, Stebbins, Mihelichs and Robinsons) , the community and the many in LE who worked countless hours to "honestly" try and soleve these cases. The absolute HELL the OCCK put us thru during those days should encourage any LE worth his salt to spare no expense in solving these cases, even if its 35 years later. JUSTICE is deserved by all of us. L. Brooks Patterson, can you finally wake up and listen? Helen has given you the killer on a silver platter yet for various reasons some in LE poo-hoo her information using faulty logic or prejudices agaisnt her. Xxxxxx
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 23:01:39 GMT -5
Look Guys, I'm not taking any post about ~~ Patrick T. Coffey unless you have Documents,-~ You do remember-Opinions are just that-they are like AH'S everybody has one-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 23:10:14 GMT -5
Nor am I taking any post on the Topix gang-If you don't like their being deceptive about changing your judging marks-`I would think your remedy would be to not Judge their post-because you know that they play by their own set of rules over there...and if they haven't changed their ways in this long of time-The news is they are not going to-Surly by now you understand -they believe everyone is out to get them! So when you complain to me about all their bad judgment-it is almost funny...what is it you think I can do to help you out with this???
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 6, 2011 5:23:20 GMT -5
lol that is a lot of emails this early in the am-yes I did see the posts--And like I have always said-when your all cut, from the same cloth-It is easier for a gang to tear down a Cathedral rather then build one...because that is what they do,and frankly that is all they know how to do-they spend every waking minute trying to figure out-how they can get the Big Kahuna...and it always back-fires on them...so they just re-group and try again-It gets really boring...-year after year after year-same old same old....
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 6, 2011 6:14:08 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 6, 2011 10:07:52 GMT -5
Helen would you post this for me?-I'm on Duty, I wanted to make sure I answered the New NUT at Topix. Helen Dagner wrote: <quoted text> Wow and you thought Terri would be hard to replace-lol any way "pure one" I have just posted more of that evil email and yes-some asked me to withhold there name-Oh my gosh and I did It!!!
Well thank you, Helen! You provided the clincher, as I knew you would.
QUESTION: What was Helen's motivation for all of this? Was it empathy & compassion for the child victims and their families in the OCCK case, and a desire to "see justice done" on their behalf?? Was it a more general concern & compassion for victims and their families? ******I disagree. I do think you have compassion for the victims and families. Most of all, due to you and your family's law enforcement background you seek justice as its in your bloodstream.
According to her own statements, Helen was completely oblivious about the OCCK case, until 2 days before she "met" John, in September of 1991. She had no knowledge of the case, at all, while it was happening. I've read many comments from people who were either children or parents of minor children during that time - about the pervasive fearfulness, about how EVERYONE THEY KNEW was talking about the case, about how the obsessive news coverage and attempts to alert people to the danger - through flyers and posters and school/community newsletters - had affected them. All across Michigan, from what people have said. ********Well, Helen may have heard of the cases in passing and had forgotten. Being in LE herself, how many hundreds of cases did she hear or read about? Also, I think Helen was in Rogers City at the time or elsewhere in Michigan? Certainly, it was the main story for 1 and 1/2 years around these parts (Detroit)...but she wasn't even living in these parts. Yet Helen, who would have had minor children herself at that time and ought to have been motivated to being alert about dangers to children in her community, never heard a word about it. Does that sound like a person who was concerned about victimization of children, about child victim s & their families? Or does it sound like someone who willfully ignored any mention of the victimization of children, considering such talk to be irrelevant in her life? *****&Back in the days of the mid-70's (and even now to some degree) people north of say, Saginaw didn't even bother to lock their doors at night, let alone worry about child killers and abusers. Ask Helen's daughter and I'll bet she tell you she was a great mother and concerned for her well-being 24x7.
Helen's motivation could not have been, that she had experienced empathy & compassion for the child victims and their families in the OCCK case when it was happening, and had always hoped for justice to be done on their behalf - because she knew nothing about it! prior to meeting John. Is there any other evidence that, prior to meeting John in 1991, Helen demonstrated concern about victimization of children, about child victims & their families? ******Is there any evidence that she didn't?
When people have entered these discussions and presented themselves as having themselves been victimized as children, has Helen responded sympathetically to them? Has she treated them with kindness and respect? Or has she been almost immediately belligerent & hostile to them? ******There are so many clowns posting on these message boards how does one know the truth? I know I'm not reading these forums to hear about somebody's personal experience with being molested. This is about the murders of four children (and perhaps others).
How has Helen treated victim's family members, the family members of THE VERY SAME child victims she claims to be on a crusade to obtain justice for? Has she gone out of her way to be supportive of them and treat them with respect, whether they agree with each other about the case or not? Or has she been mean, cruel, even sadistic toward them? ********Helen is a straight shooter and diplomacy may not be her best attribute. She is old school. For example, I know the King family is friends of Patrick Coffey. However, Helen is just stating the facts about the Busch lie detector exam and Coffey's past issues.
Whatever your opinion about Helen's "evidence" about John as a suspect might be, you shouldn't hold any delusions that she was or is motivated by concern/compassion for the victims and their families. There is very little evidence in favor of that idea and considerable evidence against it. ******I disagree. What would her motivation possibly be for spending countless hours and some of her own money with this case? She's in love with John and is a lover scorned? Give me a break. John is and has been a LOSER (with capital letters) for years. To me, its the thirst for justice which primarily motivates Helen. If its publicity, then why hasn't she written a book or why haven't we seen her interviewed on TV? I've even confronted Helen, here, about postings on her site that are blatantly, intentionally, disrespectful of victim's family members. Her response? She laughed at me and bragged of having posted up more of the same. ******I think Helen is probably numb to some of the criticism. I know I would be. After getting the run around from much of LE for 20 years and the trolls that post on some of these message boards I'd laugh too. Also, how does one know that Helen hasn't been kind to the victims families? She may disagree with them on the killer and the facts surrounding the cases but never have I seen her mean-spirited towards them. Robert
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 6, 2011 13:28:08 GMT -5
Hey, my pleasure, Helen. I have believed your story from Day 1, although there was a short period time when I thought John's brother, Tom may have done the killings. If LE could arrest someone on odd behavior, John Hastings would be a slam dunk. They need evidence and I understand that. However, what I don't understand is the fact that they haven't gone the extra miles (to my knowledge) of investigating and interrogating the entire family and witnesses to the maximum possible. It baffles me and I ask myself, why haven't they done so. Overall police arrogance? Is it because they are men and don't want to give credit to a woman? They believe John and not you? The "lover scorned" motive??? Your long ago police record(where I think you may have been mislead or framed at the time). Because LE botched the case up n so many ways? The entire case makes me very angry and suspicious of LE when I never was in the past. All I know is - someone has gotten away with the vicious and cruel murders of at least four innocent children and I'm mad about that. Tim
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 6, 2011 15:18:06 GMT -5
Well Helen, I guess old "withgreatrespect" got his A$$ whipped good, now he is back in the PEE WEE LEAGUE where he belongs, He couldn't even make the Little League, lol and he wanted to play in the Big League? Well that is what happens when you come to the game ill Equipped, But he probably hasn't learned his lesson yet, and like the rest of the D-I C- K- licking Dogs he will return to his vomit !!
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