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Post by Helen Dagner on May 22, 2011 22:11:01 GMT -5
The following was posted by Cathy at Topix today-It seems that every time I read the documents provided in the FOIA case against the MSP, there is more and more to look carefully at.
Supplemental incident report dated December 21, 2009:
12-18-09, D/Sgt. Gray: Left a voice mail for [John Hastings--this is redacted, but come on, this isn't brain surgery] at 1:15 p.m. Asked for the undersigned to call on Monday 12-21-09, at his convenience.
Call to Steve Duncan, Georgia Highway Patrol polygrapher who examined [John Hastings]. Has not heard back from [John] since his tx regarding reading the book given to him by Dagner, Wolf in Sheeps clothing.
[John] advised that he had recently changed jobs, however he's still working as a limo driver in the greater Atlanta, Georgia area. John [NOT REDACTED, thank you very much] was advised that it has been a long time since we've spoken and haven't spoken since [redacted for a few lines].[John] did qualify this statement by saying he read the book that was given to him by Helen Dagner, "Wolf in Sheeps Cothing," [redacted, redacted][John] stated "I don't know how it came to this point because I had nothing to do with this case at all." [John] mumbled throughout the conversations, but this seems to be his speaking style.[John] adamantly denied any involvement with the case and added it may have been from his numerous contacts with Helen Dagner and his fixation with this investigation.
Due to not wanting to upset [John] by questioning him further in an accusatory manner, AND AFTER REALIZING STEVE DUNCAN'S POLYGRAPH WITH HIM AND HIS WALKING OUT OF THE EXAM VERY UPSET [emphasis added], the undersigned decided not to attack him further but to soften the process."
continued ...
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 22, 2011 22:25:33 GMT -5
"[John] was asked if he would please contact the undersigned if he decides to move or change his phone number. He was further asked if it would be alright to contact him as a possible resource if something new should develop regarding a person he may have knowledge about, thus keeping an open line of communication with him for easy access.[John] said he would definitely keep the undersigned appraised of his whereabouts and if his telephone number should change.
[John] stated that he hasn't been in contact with anyone about the case, either from the Atlanta area or the Metro Detroit area."
All from a MSP supplemental incident report. Don't hack on me for it.
Why do a bunch of civilians have to read this sh** and piece the thing together? Because the police never will. Ask them why. Mybrotherskeeper
Supplemental incident report dated 1-8-10:
12-18-09 journal entry notes that D/Sgt. Ingrid Dean of the Traverse City Post would mail a copy of the 1977 article in the Traverse City newspaper about Fox Island. Dean "was able to make a contact with Retired Sergeant Moyes who does remember the North Fox case and remembers THERE WERE SEVERAL BOXES OF PHOTOGRAPHS.(Emphasis added.) "Moyes advised Igrid that he will definitely like to meet with here and hel in any way he can." Mybrotherskeeper
FBI Laboratory (Quantico) Report of Examination, sent to FBI SA Sean Callaghan, Dated June 19, 2008--
Note that there are many redactions.
Says specimens received on March 31, 2008, April 25, 2008, and April 28, 2008.
It looks like buccal samples were provided from five people. The only name not redacted is Greg Green's. Because of the way this document is redacted, it is clear that a sample was provided by "the identified brother of Chris Busch," as well as a sample from "the identified sister of [redacted]."
These samples were being compared to the mitochondrial DNA sequences from at lease two previously obtained sequences--
The Q19 hair from the Pontiac debris, and the Q29 hair from the debris from the body of Timothy King (FBI Laboratory number 970808021, FBI Laboratory report dated June 25, 1999).
The report specifically states that "[t]he mtDNA sequences from Q19, Q29 [others redacted] are different. Therefore,[redacted, redacted], Gregory Greene, Chris Busch and [redacted], can be excluded as the source of the Q19 and Q29 hairs."
OK WHAT CAN WE TAKE FROM THIS? A HAIR WAS OBTAINED FROM "PONTIAC DEBRIS"--WTF??? WHAT PONTIAC?! THE Q29 HAIR WAS TAKEN FROM THE BODY OF TIMOTHY KING--APPARENTLY NOT FOUND UNTIL SOME TIME AROUND 6-25-99. A HAIR ON TIM KING'S BODY--AND I THINK THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE HAIR FOUND AND THAT THE OTHER MAY HAVE TURNED UP MISSING. AND Q29 ISN'T DISCOVERED UNTIL JUNE 1999?! JUST HOW SERIOUS WERE THESE PEOPLE ABOUT SOLVING THE CRIMES IF THEY HADN'T RERUN THE KIDS' CLOTHING FOR EVIDENCE AFTER EVIDENTIARY TECHNIQUES HAD IMPROVED BEFORE 1999? This stinks, stinks, stinks. And this information from only 20 pages provided in the FOIA suit! Imagine what is in the documents they withheld. The murdered kids in this case never had a voice. Not from day 1. And, police officers, this is who you represent. Not the families, not the prosecutors. You are the voice for the murdered. Their only chance. This is so revolting.
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 23, 2011 22:15:19 GMT -5
more from Cathy's posting at Topix tonight-
Mybrotherskeeper wrote: Ok, not in any particular order and I have to go back and compare the questions to the documents and double-check the FOIA request. For now-- I have found nothing about John returning the Wolf book or reference to the fact that it was a library book. The hair fragment found on Kris's shirt is designated Q 34.1. Gunnels cannot be excluded as the source of that hair. Hairs designated Q 19 and Q 29 are two different hairs. Q 19 and Q 29 are not from the same person. In other words, the DNA sequence of these two hairs does not match. So those are 3 separate hairs (one a fragment), each from a different person. Hastings' name is on the cover sheets to various documents and transcripts concerning him. The name "John" is at times not redacted in the documents. Having read Helen's site many, many times, it is easy to figure out even without the occasional redaction gaffe, who the statements pertain to. The FOIA request did not specify records relating to John Hastings. When the plaintiffs raised this issue in the context of payment for copies of these records, the response was that all of the records were inextricably intertwined. Hmm. What do I think about Hastings? The more I read in these documents, the more I question LE's blowing off of Helen Dagner and Hastings. As much as LE wants to make it look like they were entirely justified in concluding he did not participate and knew nothing, given what I have read I cannot see how they so easily reached this conclusion. Finally, for this post, why didn't LE ask for victims of Busch or Green to come forward after all of this surfaced? There had to be hundreds of victims in Michigan. Had to be. Nobody wants to see if any one of these victims would consider coming forward to add whatever information possible? Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI 1 min ago Cathy,I guess I should have stated-the tapes I am talking about-are just to do with Busch-and on the other side-The cops have lost a great witness-even after they were aware of her...they never got back to her in 20 years and acorse when I talked to her last week-she blamed me for it--I didn't know what to say to her-I should have check back with her years ago-but it never crossed my mind-that every single cop that knew about her and the info she could give-would never interview her again-and I think the Birmingham police is responsible for that-for god sakes they even had her in the car and did no more than talk small talk with her and at the time-we both just thought-they didn't want her or I to say anything in front of each other-What a F--ing mess--and I can tell the cops right now -she will never talk to any of them now-and she made it very clear-that she wasn't going to talk to me ever again either-and she ment it!!
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 24, 2011 13:14:59 GMT -5
posted on Topix by-CandyO
Champaign, IL -I have not read these documents as closely as Keeper has but I can verify that John takes up a good quarter of the stack that is well over a foot high. And I can also verify that his story changes from his first interviews in the 90's to the most recent one from Georgia. After reading these docs there is no way John should be dismissed from scrutiny. No way.
I hope the recent news blitz that is squeezing LE instead of using them as their sole source brings about a more intense and focused investigation. Squeeze Gunnels, Busch's brother, John, John's siblings and find any of the former victims of Busch, Greene etc.
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 24, 2011 21:22:03 GMT -5
Complaint 27-270-77 File 0900-1 Date: March 16, 1977 Oakland County Special Task Force SUSPECT PROFILE l. Male - Possibly two males involved. 2. Age 20 to 30 years. 3. Above average Education. 4. Above average Intelligence 5. Caucasian. 6. Has capacity to store or keep victim for at least 18 days. 7. Homosexual. Plus - other mental problems. 8. Has a compulsion for cleanliness, to the point of being a fanatic. 9. No substance abuse involved such as drugs or alcohol. 10. Different - (strange ranger). 11. Work - schedule. l2~ December - January, vacation off work. 13. Super neat, clean car - house. 14. Single dwelling - attached garage, cost above $30,000. 15. Prior contact with Police. 16. Seeing Psychiatrist. 17. White collar job, 9-5. 18. Area of South Oakland County. 19. Wants body found. 25
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 25, 2011 18:44:11 GMT -5
MSP-John's -Supplemental incident report dated 12-21-09
[John] stated that he hasn't been in contact with anyone about the case, either from the Atlanta area or the Metro Detroit area." Note: well,I guess his family doesn't count-I know for a fact that his sister called him -and told him to keep his mouth shut...now am I to believe-that is all she said and then hung up?
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 26, 2011 23:26:25 GMT -5
You know John should be telling me he had nothing to do with these cases-He has my phone number plus I call him quite often an give him that opportunity-But he doesn't talk....
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 27, 2011 15:08:48 GMT -5
From Topix-My answers will be in the next post-No, I am not a doctor and I am really not from Ypsilanti. It always lists that by my name. I wonder what the reason for that is. I am familiar and dometimes work with young people with autism and through this I have met autistic people of all degrees and all ages. I have also done extensive research on it, but I am not a professional or expert. Him having a history of mental instability in his family is a huge indicator. This I know for a fact, but still some professionals will deny a genetic predisposition. If he was allowed to make friends with the victims (My impression is that he did not do anything like this alone if he is involved) it would be seen as a near actualization experience. It would be a pinnacle for him socially and a realization of something he probably already gave up on. It would make sense, because he could behind in social development, like we discussed, but still have a wealth of interesting info and talents to fascinate a kid. He would want the friendship to wok, in my view, and would probably advocate for things to appease his new friend in order to allow for a longer friendship experience. Again I want to qualify that this is purely speculation based on hearsay, but I'm going with my gut for a minute to play at the theory a little and see if there are tangent points that fit this case well. I think few of us here believe in coincidences or accidents in any measurable degree, so if the shoe fits, just spend a little time thinking about it. If it were true, how could it help in finding the truth? Is Bloomfield Village close to 555 and the gallery? On another forum I read that someone said that their dad, I beleive, lived in Bloomfield Village and was questioned, but that he was also on the task force. The person said he had the right car and that was the reason for the questioning. Is there or was there such a person in the Busch- Hastings neighborhood? Just to clarify, I have no reason to think that person would be involved if there is such a person. That person may know who John is or was and may have seen him walking around the neighborhood. Grayfield, if you are around? The question you asked al ong time ago about the favorite sandwich is spooky. What did you mean or is this not related? Is John given to taking long walks around his town or neighborhood in an almost daily ritual or very frequent anyway? What is that drawing or painting of that John is standing before working on? Are there two light figures or three? What is the figure on the right doing when looking at the picture as it is turned toward the viewer? Are there two figures on the right? Is there a large figure standing over a small figure who is laying on their back? Is someone being pushed or dragged or what? What is the dark object in the background? Is it a plane landing? Is it coming in off the water? Again I am just carrying out a theory in my mind. If I am way out there say so.
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 27, 2011 15:10:06 GMT -5
You asked was John given to taking long walks around his town or neighborhood in an almost daily ritual or very frequent anyway?* When he was in Alpena he walked continuously-day and night-except for when we went for coffee-then he would sit with me for hours-*In Bloomfield- he drove around continuously-he knew every nook & cranny of the area for miles and miles--when Rick comes back-I will see If he wants to tell you about the picture---
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 27, 2011 15:11:20 GMT -5
The painting-Looks like a military scene with a plane either taking off from an aircraft carrier, or coming in for a landing on the carrier, with flight mechanics and support persons on the deck (in the fore ground), with what may be a flag laying next to a flag pole to the left of the standing figures. It may also be a scene showing a Japanese Kamakazi attack on a U.S. carrier. Richard
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 27, 2011 15:12:35 GMT -5
This is the drawing that is more interesting to me-and you may be able to pick it up online-as it depicts The Catcher In The Rye-Who John thought he was most like- We had it on the top of Todd site-that is no longer available--it was children and more children running and jumping and turning cartwheels in the tall rye on the top of a mountain and some where cartwheeling off the cliff...and in the middle -I believe was the baseball glove -with a baseball in it's cup
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 28, 2011 20:16:39 GMT -5
Helen, What makes you think John wasn't crazy back when you were meeting with him...well he did some weird things...like going into trances and he would gorge on sacks of bananas...but for the most part,he seemed quite normal to me,he was always dressed nice-he had excellent manners,he was knowledgeable and personable ...easy to speak with....
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 29, 2011 6:06:19 GMT -5
John Stands Out In The Long List Of Occk Persons Of Interest~ The Alice in Wonderland of cold cases.....Unfortunately, we didn't get the ever elusive hit we've been looking for all these years, but make no mistake, we "ARE" vigorously working this case. Respectfully D/Sgt. Gray and the OCCK Task Force.
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 30, 2011 0:31:44 GMT -5
like poking an old grenade Occk
Think about it. Investigating someone they have continually denied is even a suspect is like poking an old grenade. It's unfortunate that the evidence against John is only circumstantial and hearsay but right now that is what they have to work with. And with only that, an investigation of John could cause an explosion of huge pro portion. Imagine that a suspect has been in front of their faces for all of these years and a deeper investigation reveals that, in fact John did have something to do with these killings. The possible damage to the entire LE web of Michigan would be rocked to the foundation. Who is ever going to risk that?
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Post by Helen Dagner on May 31, 2011 2:46:46 GMT -5
I agree with you Helen,
This documentation that you have clearly shows that John was home and that he had done or they (the family) knew of or were victims of something that he did to make his mother and father want to evict him from their home immediately.
I would like to know what the reason was though.
I deem this an emergency eviction, meaning that the family is in immediate danger of the person that they are trying to evict. If there were no danger why pursue an immediate eviction and then if memory serves me correctly place your home up for immediate sale under market price of their area?
The point to this, is that for me tells me that the suspect was in the immediate vicinity of the family not overseas. kyobserver
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