Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 26, 2014 0:36:03 GMT -5
Quotes-You just never will forget~ The Alice in Wonderland of cold cases....."Unfortunately, we didn't get the ever elusive hit we've been looking for all these years, but make no mistake, we "ARE" vigorously working this case. Respectfully D/Sgt. Gray and the OCCK Task Force."
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 27, 2014 23:57:47 GMT -5
Remember Those Occk Tips That Disappeared In 1977? I just shudder to think this one was never investigated ...back in the day..when the lead was fresh...There was a Dr.-who by the way is still alive...Who drove a Le Mams...with a trailer hitch on...who lived in the area of Tim Kings drop off... and he kept a Journal of his feelings about little boys and how he even had murderous feelings toward boys 11 to 15 years old....
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 28, 2014 2:56:27 GMT -5
I for the life of it can not understand..why anyone would think that the drawing on the wall of Busch's home would give any credibility of fact...that he was the Oakland County Child Killer...Obviously you do not know that there were hundreds of rolls of film taken by Busch of boys...and not one photo of any victim of the OCCK ever surface...now if he wanted anyone to think he was the child killer after he killed himself...wouldn't you think he would of laid out his hidden stash of photos..of the victims---ALONG WITH THOSE LIGATURES....that had NO DNA on from the children...Give me a break!
Post by Helen Dagner on Jan 31, 2014 0:44:10 GMT -5
cloakdagner.proboards.com/thread/2245 We have also learned that a man who publicly became known in 2009 as a promising suspect is not the focus of the grand jury that’s been convened in Oakland County.
Christopher Brian Busch was a convicted pedophile, who lived in Bloomfield Hills before he committed suicide in 1978. Many of the victim’s family members obtained compelling information about Busch – but now we’ve learned the grand jury has been hard at work on someone else, who’s still alive.
Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 1, 2014 5:11:35 GMT -5
WHAT??-The psychological profile is more complex. The killer, says Dr. Danto, is a bisexual pedophiliac, anally retentive and obsessive-compulsive, with a paranoid, egocentric personality and a defectively integrated ego. Freely translated, that means he is a fanatically neat child molester who cares only for his own gratification and is condemned to repeat his own sexually traumatized history. "He is evening the score," says Danto, "for an abandonment experience somewhere in his early years. He is depriving the parent of a child the way he was deprived of a parent. He's a hunter, a predator. He picks kids who are alone, he knows what he's doing, and he's very, very careful not to leave clues."
Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 3, 2014 1:27:25 GMT -5
The four known victims of the notorious Oakland County Child Killer ("OCCK") spent a combined total of 36 days being held captive before being murdered and left on roadsides in 1976 and 1977. The cases remain open to this day. Mark Stebbins, 12, of Ferndale, was abducted in February, 1976. His body was found in a Southfield parking lot on February 19, 1976. Jill Robinson, 12, of Royal Oak, was abducted in December 1976 and her body left on the shoulder of I-75 in Troy, in the early morning hours of December 26, 1976. Kristine Mihelich, 10, of Berkley was abducted in January, 1977. Her body was found near a secluded road in Franklin Village 19 days later. Tim King, 11, of Birmingham, was abducted on March 16, 1977 and his body left in a roadside ditch in Livonia seven days later.
Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 5, 2014 0:01:08 GMT -5
WHO SENT ME THIS?? I have also noticed a 3 and 1 pattern. Maybe others have noticed it also. This is where three of the victims fit a pattern but one of them does not.
Three were abducted or recovered on or the day after holidays: Robinson was abducted just after the winter solstice and her body recovered the day after Christmas. Mihelich was abducted the day after New Year and her body recovered on Martin Luther King’s birthday. Timmy King was abducted the day after the Ides of March (the day that Caesar and Christ were said to have died) and his body was recovered just after the passing of the vernal equinox. There is no reason to believe this is a coincidence since the murders betray a number of other patterns. The holidays, in fact, may have dictated why each victim was held for the length of time they were. Mark Stebbins does not fit this pattern, though. He was abducted the day before President’s Day in 1976 which occurred on February 16th. He was found on the 19th which doesn’t occur on or just after any particular holiday I know of.
Three victims were found in pristine condition--undamaged in any way. Jill Robinson, however, was shot in the face at close range with a shotgun.
Three of the victims were kept in captivity for less than a week. Krstine Mihelich, however, was kept for 19 days.
The most perplexing 3 and 1 to me is the dumping of Tim King's body. The other three were dumped in Oakland County. King was dumped in Wayne County across 8 Mile. The thing is, why there? I heard there was a lot of construction there at the time and signs all over the place redirecting traffic. Why choose that spot? There were better spots perfectly available in Oakland County. Why take the chance of being caught in this area where a car could come out of nowhere? Doesn't seem to be chance. Seems the dump sites were chosen in advance. When you look at it on a map, it's way out of place from where the other bodies were dumped.
Gill Road is a nice area. I've driven it all the way down to 7 Mile and there's some nice houses out there. If you go west on 7 Mile past Haggerty Road, you'll come across the North ville Psychiatric Hospital. It's just a hulking ruins now and has been since about 2002 or 3 when it was closed. Apparently, the city doesn't know what to do with the land. No takers. Driving past it at night is really spooky. No lights on in the place and the buildings just stand black and silent against the night sky. Really daunting looking. Kids still go there to explore and party. I never have. A lot of the buildings are unsafe. The place just gives me the creeps and it doesn't look that much less daunting in broad daylight. It has tunnels too and they are said to be haunted. Some wonder if the killer could have been a patient there. It was still in operation when the murder spree occurred. It's a fair question. It's the only thing that seems to explain why King's body was laid so far away from Greenfield, Woodward and Telegraph area.
But I really have no idea. The Killer might have just been playing up on the haunted tunnels stories by placing a child's body in the area. But I believe the killer had some connection to the area since he seemed to have gone out of his way to dump a body there. ***NOTE: Johns sister Mary was the PROGRAM DIRECTOR NORTHVILLE STATE HOSPITAL September 1974 – August 1980 (6 years)
MANAGED SEVERAL 90 BED UNITS ON THE GROUNDS OF NORTHVILLE STATE HOSPITAL IN THE 1970' AND 1980S, INCLUDING J BLDG, K BLDG; DESIGNED AND IMPLEMENTED ADULT EDUCATION PROGRAM; TAUGHT TWO WEEK INSERVICE PROGRAM TO ALL NEW EMPLOYEES; REVAMPED EXISTING BUILDING SPACE FOR APPROPRIATE PROGRAMS; HIRED AND SUPERVISED 100+ EMPLOYEES FOR 24/7 OPERATIONS INCLUDING NURSING, SOCIAL WORK, MANAGEMENT AND DIRECT CARE STAFF.
Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 6, 2014 6:21:34 GMT -5
Mike Stebbins, will never forget how he found out his brother Mark was dead--He had been skipping school since mark was abducted,but he decide he should go on the 19th which was a Thursday--as he didn't want his Mom to find out--he wasn't in class very long .when a knock came on the door and someone said- Stebbins go to the principals office----at the time he thought it was because they were going to talk to him about his skipping school..so he immediately went to the principals office knocked on the door and before he even reached the chair to sit down,the principal said-your to wait here until the police arrive,they have found a boy over on 10th and they want to talk to you about it,---he said he kept asking is my brother dead? And the principal kept saying ,lets wait until the police get here and see what they want to say to you...he screamed you know so you tell me !!! I want to know right now,so the Principal told him,yes Mark is gone.. Mike said he was just numb,it didn't seem real,he did not want to believe it....he hoped it wasn't true,but when the police walked into the office...he knew it was,just by the look on their faces....
Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 6, 2014 22:59:04 GMT -5
Just checking in. Do you have any inkling if anything is going on with the OCCK and LE at the moment? Hey, it is sweeps week for TV soon (haha).
Greg *NOTE: I'm sure someone will come up with something,they always do for sweep week on TV-Maybe one or more of the News Media will even tell the truth about these cases--That would be something new!
Post by Helen Dagner on Feb 7, 2014 8:24:13 GMT -5
www.nydailynews.com/news/national/weapons-books-serial-killers-meth-found-law-student-home-standoff-article-1.1604464 Weapons stash, books about serial killers and meth found at former law student’s home after tense standoff NOTE: I found this Interesting as when the Cops flew down to Atlanta to Interview John,he met them carrying this same book on Serial Killers- 8/2009/ 1. John drives some old limo for a living in Atlanta and has for quite some time. He couldn't explain why a guy with an education moved from family and friends in 1992 and ended up in Atlanta, other than "this is as far as my money took me" and "this is just where I ended up."
2. He showed up for the interview with some encyclopedia of serial killers, allegedly to demonstrate that he is simply fascinated by these types of crimes and to bolster his premise that he was only discussing this crime with you because of interest, not involvement. (What a piece of work.)
3. He said you "made up" the map drawing and that he never said what AW overheard that December day in the Big Boy. Cory pointed out that AW had absolutely no reason to lie, even told him there were other witnesses who observed the map drawing, etc. I think this was the point that Cory said John ran out of answers and started doing that trance thing. I just remember that Cory said at one point he did do that weird trance thing. While at other points John never denied saying anything, just said you were making things up, at during the map discussion I think Cory said he said the witnesses were wrong because he never said that stuff or wrote the maps.
4. The interview was 2 hours, conducted primarily by Cory, and became heated at times.
5. They are really glad he agreed to take the polygraph. Cory said it wouldn't surprise him either way--if he passed or failed. He says he thinks John has the biggest likelihood of failing the question of "are you withholding any info on this case?"
6. John said he does not keep in contact with his family--hasn't talked to Tom in ages; rarely talks with Mike. When asked why John didn't end up in Florida like some of the rest of his family, he had no response.
7. John is completely strange and bizarre and often did not make eye contact.
8. John said he never knew any Chris Busch; didn't have a friend who committed suicide or know anyone at that time who killed himself. That you were smart enough to do the research on Busch's date of death and that the fact that it was on the same day as your husband's suicide was just a coincidence. As I pointed out, this is a pretty d**n big coincidence, as is John's proximity to the Busch house, and Cory agreed. He said that's why they need a correctly-administered polygraph.
9. That he and Gray discussed the possibility that John was just feeding you the story to get a rise out of you and to get free meals and coffee. When Gray asked Cory why John didn't just sue you, Cory said "because that s.o.b. in fact said all of that stuff to Helen." At one point in the interview, John tried to say you were crazy and Cory stopped him and said he has spoken to you, you are not crazy and that many of the things you have said have checked out when Cory looked into it. So he said something along the lines of stop saying Helen is crazy, she isn't, and that doesn't answer my questions.
10. John denied ever receiving any mental health treatment, denied every staying at or being treated at the Ardmore Center Hospital (near Tim's drop off).
11. There must have been a lot more if they talked for two hours, but this was what I got out of the brief phone call. If I had to be a realist, what I am guessing is that they need a failed or inconclusive polygraph to justify continuing to investigate him. Cory mentioned nothing about interviewing family members and simply said he had to report in to the Wayne County prosecuting attorney because Wayne County picked up the tab for a lot of this trip. I assumed that a further game plan would be discussed at that time, but I know a lot is riding on that polygraph. The only good thing, and I mean only, is that this polygraph will be conducted by someone competent and someone in Georgia with no ties to the MSP.
My dad's message made it sound like Gray said the polygraph was imminent and Cory said that near the conclusion of the interview both he and Gray told John they hoped he understood how bad it would look and how much trouble he would create for himself if he didn't show up for this poly. He said he understood. Cory asked him if he was going to pass and John said "I think so." Cory responded: Think or know?! John then said oh yeah, he knew he would pass.
That's all I know. I agree with my brother and your daughter that info is being withheld from me, but with the MSP involved it's amazing I got anything at all. I'm sure more will eek out as time goes on. At least Gray is calling my dad and I will get some kind of idea what is going on through that--although it will be the totally edited version.
I will let you know what I hear about the actual polygraph. NOTE: The results of this Polygraph are shown below-and were the same for Kris-Mark and Jill--No polygraph was given at this time for Tim as John had taken two Polygraphs in Alpena Michigan on only Tim' case?