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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 15:32:34 GMT -5
I'll come up with something to post. You are not wasting your time, I can tell you that. There will be more info on the dirtbag on Monday after my friend gets me the death certificate.
I just find it beyond coincidental that the dirtbag and John lived in the same exclusive neighborhood and on paper have a lot of similarities. The house we lived in was a nutshole compared to these places. They were in an entirely different league. The dirtbag is the only door to get through to the xxxxxxxx . That's why I view it as a good thing--remarkable, actually. You know the MSP won't want to go anywhere near xxxxxxxxx, but if the dirtbag continues to look good, they have to look atxxxxxxxx ; they have no choice. Can you imagine what would happen if they announced that the dead dirtbag is conclusively involved (a long shot, I know) and then you post a map of the neighborhood and the similarities between these guys?! This is why, if they're smart (another long shot), they will be checking out xxxxxxxxxx again simultaneously. They know I know exactly where John lived. I pointed out all of the similarities between these two guys. I also told him I think Mike is gay and that he could have been used as a lure or have some horrible connection (maybe even molested by the dirtbag). People had to stay in the closet back then--god knows what Mike did behind the scenes. It's obvious, given those articles you found, that this man-boy nuts was all over the place and that it was well-organized. What a sick society--and what a horrible joke that it involved all of those millionaires and other "big society" men.
Cory told me they are .4 miles apart--that is pretty d**n close if you ask me. Cory is the only one doing any of the hard work, but he has to be overwhelmed with the dirtbag stuff. One of those s-its at the MSP should be going over xxxxxxx with a fine-tooth comb in order to have some explanation for all of this. Believe me, that is next, even if the dirtbag doesn't check out. Can you imagine the MSP having to explain how it is that these two creeps live in the same neighborhood, same age, travelled in Europe, etc.? I believe that BOTH of these guys were ultimately given the "benefit of the doubt" because they were Bloomfield Village boys. At least the guys in Cass Corridor didn't kill their victims.
Enough ranting, I think you know where I am coming from. I hate to sound like a Pollyanna, but I feel pretty good about where things are headed. It won't be quick, but after 30-plus years, it's all relative. I don't like all of the secrecy, but it is an unfortunate necessity. Cathy
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 15:48:19 GMT -5
Hi Helen--Are you ready for this? This won't be the most articulate, coherent response, but--
Yes, there is DNA unrelated to the victim (but just the hairs, plural). Nobody must have read the autopsy reports until Cory came along--a facial hair was found in Tim's genital area. Guess what? The MSP can't find that hair. There are animal hairs (dog) linking three of the four kids (it wasn't found on one of the girls--Jill I think). This animal hair was sent to some lab that specializes in animal DNA--some time in the last year or so. (Don't mention anything about dogs on the site, because that will be a dead giveaway that I squealed.)
No idea where John is. The focus right now is on a suspect who LIVED IN JOHN'S NEIGHBORHOOD. I pointed out how close these two lived from each other--what are the odds of that?! This suspect is so much like John--26 or 27-year-old loser, "food service manager" at an area nursing home, living in his parents' home while they were overseas for the dad's work (1976/77). Helen, this guy was a big time molester. He had sexual assault charges all over the state. This f--ker even molested 2 of his nephews. He went to boarding school overseas, so he wouldn't have gone to school with John. He killed himself in the family home in late 1978. This freak ran with another molester who was jailed after Kristine's murder, but before Tim's. This other guy spent his life in prison and died there. Cory discovered that these two guys would use younger boys (14-16) to lure boys. Mike xxxxxxxx fits right into that category, if you ask me. If John was directly involved, he was involved with this freak in some way (my conclusion). Here is another thing to be prepared for: the boys were sexually assaulted numerous times prior to their death (my conclusion based on what I heard). Who knows what the story is on the girls.
This is obviously the short-hand version, but these are MY conclusions, based on what I heard and saw (and I am sure there are many things I don't know):
1. The evidence is very compelling against this 26-year-old freak neighbor of the xxxxxxxxx (and when I say "neighbor," I mean like .4 miles away, a few streets over). For instance, the freak bought a light blue Vega with a white hockey stripe in January of 1977. His buddy, the other molester, drove a Pontiac. Both of their names had been turned into the task force and they were interviewed and cleared prior to Tim's abduction and murder. Somebody even fingered this guy for Mark's murder prior to Jill's abduction. He had a beard (hence the facial hair). Came from big money and privilege and this guy was constantly being bailed out of trouble by his parents.
2. This suspect is identical to John, except he is a big time child molester. But as far as age, background, circumstances, Bloomfield Village, it is right on. Just like you said, it must have been the old "Bloomfield Village boys couldn't be involved in something like this, right???!!!" If (and I believe this will be proven ultimately) this guy is proven to have been involved (they got DNA from his only first-degree living relative, a brother, but no results yet and it is expected to take a long time because it is mitochondrial DNA), your suspect is as close a hit as anyone else ever mentioned. John was either involved in some way or had actual knowledge or reason to suspect this other guy. There just cannot be any other explanation. Either way, it is obvious that John should have been looked at much more carefully and extensively after you turned him in.
3. Another link I can think of is that maybe Mike xxxxxxx was molested by or willingly had sex with this guy and could have been used as a lure (not on the abductions) to get boys close enough to the freak(s). Cory said it is most likely that this freak told the lures he'd kill them if they ratted him out. He had two shotguns and a handgun. He had threatened some of his molestation victims with a gun. Mike doesn't come forward on any of this (nor does his family) because he was threatened or because of his own illegal sex acts. Then he gets the hell out of town. Bloomfield Village is all about appearances and I'm sure the xxxxxxxx would have wanted to keep a lid on anything like Mike's possible homosexuality. So, maybe John puts two and two together, knows the freak killed himself and somehow adopts the story as his own. Either that or he actually had reason to know it was this guy, or he was in fact somehow linked to the freak and the crimes. No link has been found yet, but it is obvious that this will have to be looked into further given what you have said all along on the internet. I am going to send Cory old Captain Mike's resume that used to be online.
(Am I making any sense? I believe you are fully vindicated either way because your suspect is in many ways identical to this other guy and is geographically right on. John was either was involved or knew something and should have come forward. All of this s- it going on in Bloomfield Village, right outside Birmingham. It's like a suburban chamber of horrors. Either way, how can anyone deny that what you were saying makes perfect sense? How could John have just pulled this out of his ass and lived that close to the home where these kids were probably kept? And, the freak family had a cabin up north, near Alpena that freak-boy often lived in because he couldn't hold down a job.)
4. Helen, Cory Williams has clearly worked his ass off on this. He is the ONLY one doing anything constructive and the MSP will just ride on his coattails and then take credit IF this thing is solved. That's my take anyway. Cory has interviewed so many people it made my head spin, including people out of state. It is amazing to me that the Livonia PD allowed him to work full throttle on this--thank god, because the MSP would be nowhere without him. He worked on this alone for many months, with the backing of Wayne County, knowing that the MSP would f-k it up if they got involved too soon. How they avoided the police grapevine for that long amazes me. And thank god he is in Wayne County. Those a-holes in Oakland County are pieces of work. I believe that if this falls apart due to lack of physical evidence or reticence on the part of the Oakland County prosecutor to continue with a circumstantial case, Wayne County would pick up the ball on Tim's case. You were totally right. Solve Tim's crime and the rest are solved. It is such a d**n painstaking process--interviewing people, getting search warrants, processing DNA, waiting for it to be tested and retested, trying to get the prosecutor to get on board. Although I was completely encouraged by what I heard and saw, this thing could string along for many more months. But my impression is that Cory is all over it and is pushing the MSP hard. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny. We cannot hack on him and I told him how much I appreciated what you have done and are doing, so hopefully there will be a truce.
5. Amazingly tragic errors have been made at every turn. It is undeniable.
*******************
So Helen, I know this is hard, but try to think about John in the context of being involved with at least one other person or perhaps playing a minor role and then tell me what you think.
The MSP has treated Cory like total s--it (my words & observation, not his) until he came up with this Bloomfield Village freak. He has totally hung in there and I do believe him when he tells me he is going to do everything he can to bring this to a conclusion and that the xxxxxxxx link will not be ignored. Now, of course, the MSP are being nice to him--go figure. I can't even think ahead to what I will do if those f---kers try to take credit for any of this. It makes my blood boil if I even think about it for a second. After f--king up the case, being pricks to you, Judi, Art and Cory, they better realize what thin ice they are on. "Mistakes were made" is an understatement. If they don't come clean at the appropriate time, it will be very bad for them. I told Cory that Det. Gray pushes all of my buttons and that he has every characteristic I hate in a person. His eyes got big and then he said "well, I wouldn't want you made at me."
So, I will instead focus on the powerful acts of kindness and commitment shown by you, Cory, Judi, Art, and the retired cop who also helped me realize how fu--ed up the investigation really was (he wants to remain nameless unless we need him). It is truly awe-inspiring. Just one person can touch the entire universe--you go to the cops to tell them about John, they blow you off, you start a website which causes others to become aware and involved, I check out your site and hook up with you and Judi and Art (he wanted to tell me first hand about the Big Boy deal), had I not had my eyes opened, I would have not paid any attention to the things that followed. I would have just ignored them, thinking "oh the cops will check this out fully" (I think Cory now understands that NONE of the prior work can be trusted). I would have continued to live my life the way I had for the past three decades--by shoving the crime out of my head.
Helen, coming across the few committed people who care (my list above) is great compensation for the tragic errors that preceded your effort and Cory's effort. It restores my faith in humanity.
ok, more later, including the Lamborgine deal. Also my strategy for going forward. I also took pictures of xxx and xxx Tuckahoe and I will forward them. Best not to post them right now--or maybe ever--but interesting nevertheless. I plan on sharing those with Judi and Art.
Cathy
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 18:57:16 GMT -5
Well, she only has two choices. Have hope or give up and if she's following the
case as it appears she is,, then she does still have a glimmer of hope that she
is hanging on to. She is obviously very frustrated and out of patience, but
still beleives like I do that it can be solved...The DNA could be the smoking
gun weve needed, but it takes time..the victims have to be eliminated first.. Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:00:42 GMT -5
Helen, Gary gives the families a heads up.....Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:02:43 GMT -5
Helen, PIG HEAD is a white guy, approximately 64 years old, 6'00 tall..Blue
eyes...about 175 lbs...I believe Knepper told me that PIG HEAD has white semi-long
hair.......Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:05:17 GMT -5
First of all,,,Gary didn't report anything about the DNA that Scott Lewis didn't
report 3 months ago at Ted's sentencing..We said then that the State Police lab
is finding DNA material on the kids clothing..MSP is just confirming that
now....Now they'll compare it to the victims DNA to make sure it's not theirs
and then begin comparing to the suspects.....Secondly..Iv'e been on vacation for
the past week and am just now getting my e-mails.....
Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:06:54 GMT -5
Helen, I'll stay in touch with ya.......
Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:08:30 GMT -5
You may be right Helen and in time we may know the asnwer to that. He
definitely is a strange character and has a strange fascination with the case.
Nothing new to pass along, right now...still "plugging away at it" and making
some progress in the right direction...we'll see.....Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:10:10 GMT -5
I am absolutely NOT working with Dutton......If he is working with someone..I
have no idea who it is....Everyone I know that knows him thinks he's a
NUT,,,,,,I talked to him about a year ago...but thats it...He shouldn't be using
my name..........What i'm working on has nothing to do with him or his
theories.......Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:13:51 GMT -5
My Dad called me late today and told me Gary Gray called him (today) about the Channel 7 deal and said there was nothing new (about the DNA), there were no more specifics, and that Channel 7 came hunting for info (and he seemed pissed that they came knocking), but that there was nothing of substance to report. Then my Dad went on about how people don't understand that there were no DNA tests in 1977, yada, yada, yada. Maybe it's from being in the military, but he likes the concept of going to the man "in charge." He just doesn't get, despite numerous, numerous statements by my brothers and me, that there is no "charge" to the "in charge" in this particular scenario! I'm guessing Gray didn't call on the very day of the interview b/c he figured this was nothing new (beyond the nuts that guy from Channel 2 reported during the Lamborgine stuff). Maybe he saw Casual Observer's post this morning and thought he better get on the horn. My Dad hadn't even seen the Channel 7 nuts. Cathy
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:16:20 GMT -5
Helen, compared to MSP this guy is the only hope, and I am not kidding. Who would you pick, the MSP, Ray Anger or Cory Williams? Cathy
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 11, 2011 19:33:08 GMT -5
At this point, there's nothing to check out. The DNA results will go one way or the other, and either way, John and his family will have to be looked at. You know how this works, it's one step at a time. I'm sure there is a lot that I don't know. We have someone with police powers who is willing to listen and to work. The MSP isn't going to want to touch the John thing, but with Cory in there, they have no choice. We just have to be patient. But I definitely feel like we are back in the game. I hope you can trust my instincts.
Now that I think about it, Les and Susan can't be involved in this, as the guy did not have a sister and if I recall, Susan was the sibling in that scenario and Les was the brother-in-law. I couldn't find anything about dog hairs, but I will keep looking. But like I said, I don't think Les and Susan have a thing to do with this and that their dead brother was probably "just" a pedophile and not a murderer. That's why "Les" found those photos. Cathy
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 12, 2011 18:50:48 GMT -5
Hey Helen, I'm still looking for a child killer too...I did not forget your
request for description of Wilkie..I have something brewing in the OCCK case
that I'm following up on and it is taking all my time right now. I like the
McKinney info as a possibility and his xxxxxx could be a suspect in his murder
depending on what the xxxxxx found out about dad's private life??......I have not
had a chance to look into xxxxxxxxx much because of the possible lead I have
going in OCCK right now...I know garry gray & Ray Anger have told me in the past
the xxxxx had been fully investigated and cleared.......I like to keep an
open mind about whose been cleared and why........I'll send your description of
Wilkie today...I'll be in touch.....Cory
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 12, 2011 18:54:54 GMT -5
Now its time to use your imagination. Picture this as your Easter
Card. The front has a picture of the prettiest decorated egg you have
ever seen and when you open it up, it says "HAVE AN EGGCELLANT
DAY"...Best Wishes, LT
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Post by Helen Dagner on Apr 12, 2011 18:58:36 GMT -5
Helen, I have not had contact with xxxxxx...I may being doing so in the near
future thru an agency in the area where he lives....I'm working on getting a
photo of him and having it sent to me........I can give you his general physical
description for now...I'll send it to you when i get a minute...Real busy on a
couple of things right now related to the OCCK......I will be in touch with ya
tho.......Cory
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