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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 26, 2011 17:56:18 GMT -5
Hi- Sorry I seem so reluctant about telling you things. I share this email with my spouse and he will think I am a complete idiot to give our address to complete strangers - and this privacy stems from the Tim King thing too! I grew up in the area. Was friends with Tim's brother Chris, younger brother Mark and my boyfriend at the time ( now spouse) was in the same class with his sister Cathy. Anyway, the night Tim was abducted, my now brother-in law (12 and in 6th grade at Adams School) was with Tim King and another kid in the parking lot at Hunter Maple Pharmacy. He had to be home by 5:00 as we were going to the Ice Capades ( or Follies) in Detroit that night with his father's family( the parents were divorced). My boyfriend ( now spouse) came to pick me up at 5:00 and we had to stop back at his house - which was 2 blocks from the Pharmacy and backed up to Poppleton park - because his brother had been a little late getting home from hanging with Tim. The next day, during the lunch hour at Seaholm, it came across the radio that Tim was missing. I didn't know immediatly that my bro-in-law had been with him that night until I think a few days letr when he sickened and shocked mother told me. SHE had been to the Pharmacy to buy hair color around 4ish and felt she came face to face with the killer as he was leaving the store and she was walking in ( the back door.) She never told me why, but it was a feeling. Anyway, about a half an hour after that she noticed a car circling her block - around Poppleton Park and back down her street VERY SLOWLY. Enough that she stood at the door and watched and made eye contact with the driver. It was the same man she had seen in the store. She told all of this to the police, but was dicounted. She never mentioned the car as being a Gremlin and I think I remember her saying the car was light in color. About 2 weeks later. A call came for my Bro-in-law. It was a man who wouldn't identfy himself and in fact ( I think) claimed my Bro-in-law knew him and was asking questions about Tim kIngand that night. I don't remember what my BRo-in-law told me ( and that is a senistive area for him), but I know the police were called in and their wires were tapped for a time. My mother in law went to her grave bothered by all of this and saw Mr. & Mrs. King from time to time. Yes, you can give me email to Avalon. If I can talk to my Bro-in-law and get more info, I'll let you know. Casual Observer
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jun 29, 2011 19:42:47 GMT -5
THANK YOU AMERICA!
Dear American Taxpayer For only the second time in my adult life, I am not ashamed of my country. I want to thank the hard working American people for paying $242 thousand dollars for my vacation in Spain. My daughter Sasha, several long-time family friends, my personal staff and various guests had a wonderful time. Honestly, you just haven't lived until you have stayed in a $2,500.00 per night private 3-story villa at a 5-Star luxury hotel.
Thank you also for the use of Air Force Two and the 70 Secret Service personnel who tagged along to be sure we were safe and cared for at all times. By the way, if you happen to be visiting the Costa del Sol, I highly recommend the Buenaventura Plaza restaurant in Marbella; great lobster with rice and oysters! I'm ashamed to admit the lobsters we ate in Martha's Vineyard were not quite as tasty, but what can you do if you're not in Europe, you have to just grin and bear it? Air Force Two (which costs $11,351 per hour to operate according to Government Accounting Office reports) only used 47,500 gallons of jet fuel for this trip and carbon emissions were a mere 1,031 tons of CO2. These are only rough estimates, but they are close. That's quite a carbon footprint as my good friend Al Gore would say, so we must ask the American citizens to drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars and drive less too, so we can lessen our combined carbon footprint. I know times are hard and millions of you are struggling to put food on the table and trying to make ends meet. So I do appreciate your sacrifices and do hope you find work soon. I was really exhausted after Barack took our family on a luxury vacation in Maine a few weeks ago. I just had to get away for a few days. Cordially, Michelle (Moochelle) Obama P.S. Thank you as well for the $2 BILLION dollar trip to India from which we just returned!
P.SS. Thank you, too, for that vacation trip to Martha's Vineyard; it was fabulous. And thanks for that second smaller jet that took our dog Bo to Martha's Vineyard so we and the children could have him with us while we were away from the White House for eleven days. After all, we couldn't take him on Air Force One because he might pee on some wires or something. P.SSS. Oh, I almost forgot to say thanks also for our two-week trip to Hawaii at Christmas. That 7,000 square foot house was great! Love ya! Remember we all have to share the pain of these economic times equally! Love to -redistribute- share- the wealth. SEND THIS TO EVERY AMERICAN NOW STAND UP, SPEAK UP. NEVER SURRENDER!!!!
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 2, 2011 12:14:42 GMT -5
Get ready to have some hearty chuckles !!! How the fight started - Humor Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:54:04 PM by New Jersey Realist One year, I decided to buy my mother-in-law a cemetery plot as a Christmas gift... The next year, I didn't buy her a gift. When she asked me why, I replied, "Well, you still haven't used the gift I bought you last year!" And that's how the fight started..... ________________________________ My wife and I were watching Who Wants To Be A Millionaire while we were in bed. I turned to her and said, 'Do you want to have Sex?' 'No,' she answered. I then said, 'Is that your final answer?' She didn't even look at me this time, simply saying, 'Yes..' So I said, "Then I'd like to phone a friend." And that's when the fight started... ________________________________ I took my wife to a restaurant. The waiter, for some reason, took my order first. "I'll have the rump steak, rare, please." He said, "Aren't you worried about the mad cow?" "Nah, she can order for herself." And that's when the fight started..... _______________________________ My wife and I were sitting at a table at her high school reunion, and she kept staring at a drunken man swigging his drink as he sat alone at a nearby table. I asked her, "Do you know him?" "Yes", she sighed, "He's my old boyfriend. I understand he took to drinking right after we split up those many years ago, and I hear he hasn't been sober since." "My God!" I said, "Who would think a person could go on celebrating that long?" And then the fight started... ________________________________ When our lawn mower broke and wouldn't run, my wife kept hinting to me that I should get it fixed. But, somehow I always had something else to take care of first, the shed, the boat, making beer.. Always something more important to me. Finally she thought of a clever way to make her point. When I arrived home one day, I found her seated in the tall grass, busily snipping away with a tiny pair of sewing scissors. I watched silently for a short time and then went into the house. I was gone only a minute, and when I came out again I handed her a toothbrush. I said, "When you finish cutting the grass, you might as well sweep the driveway." The doctors say I will walk again, but I will always have a limp. ______________________________ My wife sat down next to me as I was flipping channels. She asked, "What's on TV?" I said, "Dust." And then the fight started... ________________________________ Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my lunch, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the van and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day. I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed. I cuddled up to my wife's back; now with a different anticipation, and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible." My loving wife of 5 years replied, "And, can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?" And that's how the fight started... _______________________________ My wife was hinting about what she wanted for our upcoming anniversary. She said, "I want something shiny that goes from 0 to 150 in about 3 seconds." I bought her a bathroom scale. And then the fight started...... ______________________________ After retiring, I went to the Social Security office to apply for Social Security. The woman behind the counter asked me for my driver's License to verify my age. I looked in my pockets and realized I had left my wallet at home. I told the woman that I was very sorry, but I would have to go home and come back later. The woman said, 'Unbutton your shirt'. So I opened my shirt revealing my curly silver hair. She said, 'That silver hair on your chest is proof enough for me' and she processed my Social Security application. When I got home, I excitedly told my wife about my experience at the Social Security office. She said, 'You should have dropped your pants. You might have gotten disability too.' And then the fight started... ________________________________ My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and said to me, "I feel horrible; I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment.' I replied, "Your eyesight's d**n near perfect." And then the fight started......... ________________________________ I rear-ended a car this morning...the start of a REALLY bad day! The driver got out of the other car, and he was a DWARF!! He looked up at me and said 'I am NOT Happy!' So I said, 'Well, which one ARE you then?' That's how the fight started.
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 4, 2011 21:04:11 GMT -5
Helen,I know you don't read over at Topix,but I do just to see how low those idiots will sink.You know the gal that doesn't have her head screwed on tight,well she has shorted out more of her wiring,she always comments on your posts,does she not have any function to her brain.She mention you referencing a 2005 post as though it was some how off the wall when in fact it has direct bearing on the Occk cases,which you had to bring up again,because it evidently eluded them the first time around. Now I have read that Oakland County Child Killer forum they have over 5000 posts from over the years and I think hafe of them are slaming you,there is never any information of value or logical train of thought or investigative reasoning.Right now they are back to the Fox Island dead end and getting no where fast.When you posted the Fox Island news you even interview some of the victims and they clearly stated they had never seen or heard anyone in that group ever mention nor were there any photos of the Occk victims. You also ran all the old news articals so I know there was no connection and just how ignorant do those Topix poster think people are.You told us how much investigating the police did all through the years on the Fox Island group,and now they are trying to act like this is all new information,when in fact the Occk murders were not committed by any pedophile,they have missed the entire motive.I think if there had been any connection to the Fox gang and the Occk victims,surely Don Studt.Det.Anger,The MSP and above all Tobias would have caught the connection,don't you.This is the same old retread BS being put out by that old Yahoo gang.The only reason they even post anything is to bad mouth you and impress each other.They are not interested in the Occk cases all they want to do is mudslinging.I wonder if they ever even think about the damage that their nonsense has done to these cases.I guess they do not realize that their performance really goes on notice,their audience has long since lost intrest and departed. Beth M. 2010
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 9, 2011 10:37:35 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 11, 2011 8:00:18 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 12, 2011 22:39:06 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 14, 2011 3:06:11 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 15, 2011 16:14:52 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 16, 2011 12:52:00 GMT -5
Kevin Rundel <krundel@t...> wrote: Since this profile was made almost 30 years ago I'd like to go over it and add or subtract some things from it. > > 1. Male - Possibly two males involved. There's no doubt in my mind that the killer was a male. I can make an argument either way as to one or two suspects. For the sake of an argument, lets say there is only one killer > > 2. Age 20 to 30 years. I believe the suspect would be no older than 27 and late teens early 20's when he commits his first murder. > > 3. Above average Education. I wouldn't put an education level on this killer only an intelligence level. I see nothing to suggest that this killer attended college. > > 4. Above average Intelligence. I agree 100%. You don't have to be smart to kill someone. But you do have to be of an above average intelligence to abduct someone in broad day light, hold them for days and not get caught. > > 5. Caucasian. I agree 100%. An African American could not have walked into any city in Oakland County during the 1970's and not have 100 eyes on the back of his neck. > > 6. Has capacity to store or keep victim for at least 18 days. This goes back to my original theory that the killer had a cabin or vacation home to keep the children. This something that Norberg did not have. > > 7. Homosexual. Plus - other mental problems. This is a very old way of thinking. Homosexuals have sex with other Homosexuals. Child molesters have sex with kids. Some child molesters prefer girls and others boys. Just because the boys were the only ones to show signs of sexual abuse doesn't mean the killer is gay. > > 8. Has a compulsion for cleanliness, to the point of being a fanatic. I believe #8 was added because the children were washed and cleaned. I believe the killer did this to get rid of evidence not because he has issues with being clean. > > > 9. No substance abuse involved such as drugs or alcohol. I guess what is being said her is that the killer was focused and not under any substance what so ever. How else could he take a child with so much ease and not get caught. I wonder why someone would think Norberg is the killer if he used drugs and alcohol? > > 10. Different - (strange ranger). DUH! > > 11. Work - schedule. I used to put a lot of weight into the work schedule of the killer. Truth is the killer could have been someone that was jobless and lived at home or worked part time. There are just to many ways a person can kill someone and still hold a job or be jobless. > > 12. December - January, vacation off work. See number 11. example Child molestor Larry Smith had a bomb shelter in the back yard of his Royal Oak home. He could have kept a victim there for long periods of time and still go to work. Det Anger tried tying Smith to Norberg. I dont think he ever did. > > 13. Super neat, clean car - house. See number 8 > > 14. Single dwelling - attached garage, cost above $30,000 I believe anyone could by a home with an attached garage in the 70's for a lot less than $30,000. I really don't see why the police would say the killer had an attached garage unless they asumed the killer held the victims in his own house. Don't get me wrong, we had a person hold runaways in the basement of his house in my neighborhood and he didn't have an attached garage. > > 15. Prior contact with Police. I guess the police were thinking that they followed ever lead in the case and there couldn't be anyone they didnt talk to. > > 16. Seeing Psychiatrist. Why would the police think this? > > 17. White Collar job, 9-5. See above. > > 18. Area of South Oakland County. without a doubt the killer lived in or very close to south Oakland County. > > 19. Wants body found. I guess this is the $64,000 question, why leave the child to be found? I think the police put way to much thought into this one. The police and the media all said the killer was taughnting the police and driving fear into the public and the killer liked making the parents suffer. I disagree. I think the killer simply wanted the children found because he felt back about what he did. And killed the children to save them from a life that was forced onto him and because he didn't want a witness. > > > > > I'll try and put everything here in a nutshell. I'm not sating that everything here is 100 correct and has no room for mistake. I could make a case that the killer acted alone and worked with others. I could also make the case that there are 5 different killers. However, for the sake of an argument, lets say one person killed these 4 children. > > First, the killer did not use a snatch and grab method with any of the victims. If he had, someone would have seen a child strugle to get free of his abductor. So, the killer must have been young, friendly, had a pleasing nature about himself, and/or a method where a child would not question him. i.e a good story, badge, costume, or something as simple as a puppy. > High Intelligence. > > Second, the killer took both boys and girls. Child molestors usually take one or the other not both. Why both? Because the killer wanted to control a victim reguardless of gender. The killer was at that stage where he goes from victim to preditor. People who abuse children create victims who inturn abuse other victims. Child molestors dont become child molestor without having been molested themselves. And just because someone is a victim of child abuse doesn't mean they will go on to become child molestors. > > So if the killer did not care whether his victims were male or female, then why did he only molest the boys? Simple, the killer was a victim of abuse from both men and women in his life. The number one reason this person grabbed kids and held them for days was about control over another human being. The killer was most likely molested by a male figure in his home or neighborhood and had really bad mommy issues. example of mommy issues. A childs parent divorce and the child is left with his mother. The mother then uses the child as a substitute husband. I'm not saying the mother had sex with the child. What I'm saying is the mother made her son to feel like he need to be the husband of the house instead of the child of the house. > > For a child to have been through these to types of abuse in his life would make him want to gain control over women, because his mother had control or still does over him and have control over men because men had control over him. Its really a classic triangle of abuse. A child is abused. He is a victim. The child only sees one relief and that is to control someone else. > > I believe this behavior all leads me to asume the killer is in his late teens or ealry twenties. A child molestor like this does not have relationships with women and does not have close friends. This also a reason why the killer would act alone. As the killer grows older and developes relationships with women he would fill his need for control through those relationships and seldom molest a child. > > Third, The killer wants the children to be found because he has developed a bond with the child. Most childmolestors snatch and grab a kid, molest them, and then hide the evidence quickly. This killer held the children over days and saw them go through what he had went through as a child. He still kills them and washing them to hide the evidence but is remorseful enough to place the child in an area that they will be found. > > Again this is just my opinion and there's lost of room for error. > > In short I believe the killer to be > > 1 White male acting alone > 2 Between the ages of 19 and 27 > 3 He has military back round jugding by the way he tied up his victims. > 4 He is an avid hunter judge by the gun and shells used to kill Jill. > 5 He has a cabin he uses for hunting and holding his victims and is making ferquent visit to that cabin. > 6 He is right handed jugding by the way he placed his victims along roadsides. > 7 He is above average intelligence but did not attend College. > 8 He is hetrosexual by nature but has been abused by both men and women as a child. > 9 The killer is dead or in jail because there are no other crimes consestant with the occk. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 18, 2011 13:03:59 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 19, 2011 4:37:58 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 19, 2011 4:38:33 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 20, 2011 3:58:06 GMT -5
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Post by Helen Dagner on Jul 22, 2011 12:18:28 GMT -5
The children were the one vulnerability he could exploit in his effort to strike back at Society for the raw deal he was getting. In his own twisted mind, he may have figured that since life was painful and sucked, he would really be doing the kids a favor by saving them from living a life sure to be full of disappointment, frustration and pain, by killing them. Perhaps our killer was not only smacking down Society, as may be evidenced by the fact that the killer had two boys and two girls as siblings in his own family, as if to say that on a subconscious level, he was symbolically destroying his own family, (With Society as a whole representing his father). So our suspect not only has the only motive that makes sense and fits the evidence, he actually has ancillary reinforcing motives. But wait, there's yet even more!!! As an additional Gigantic Motive and Big Time Pay Off was the fact that our killer was no longer an insignificant cipher in the crowd, Suddenly, HE MATTERED!!! HE was the most important person in the world for a whole lot of people. Like a God who held the power of Life and Death! He stopped killing for two reasons; #1 He had finished making his statement. #2 He almost got caught and since he was not motivated by sex, he had no need to continue.
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