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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 1, 2011 10:07:56 GMT -5
When they discussed the book Wolf In Sheeps Clothing -John was continually Contradicting Himself. Making statements that just didn't hold together and it did make Studt more suspicious.-The first thing John told Studt was that all the answers he gave me he had gotten from the Book,which he had just read for the first time 3 weeks before this interview and that I was really high on the book and stuff like that-Studt did a really good job of tricking John up during the interview-What John didn't know at the time was that Studt knew John was lying as soon as he open his mouth about getting his answers from the Wolfe book-He first asked John about the maps he drew me of the pick up and drop offs of the child victims-John replied that he only drew them while I was sitting in front of him paging through the book telling him what to draw-Don Studt let him Ramble on and on-asking him frequently and giving him a chance to change his story on the date he drew the maps-but John never caught on-That Studt all ready had the Maps that John drew in his possession -6 weeks before I picked up the Wolfe book from the Library- ( I will be running the Info from these Documents as soon as I get the time to type them up) It is amazing what a person will go through to cover their own tracks...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 1, 2011 17:30:16 GMT -5
Studt Interview with John at Alpena Michigan-Document-BLK-01658-page 12-John says-Than she gets this book .."Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" and I read that. STUDT-What is your opinion? from that book,after reading that book..and being around that area? Because everyone in the area could feel a certain something about that there's some nut out here and everybody is checking everybody out. It was something everyone dealt with,...I think if the guy had a blue Gremlin that he would have been found by us. John-I think that Helen, like she said,the guy with the sideburns,with the profile,I don't think he's the kind of person that would hurt a kid.That's the conclusion I came to.There is some phenomena about the whole thing,you know,that's really unexplainable and....he had some different things to say about it,you know. It's a real puzzle,you know .I couldn't tell you. STUDT-she is trying to tell me this guys got to be on a genies level.She's kind of making a profile on the personality and I think it could be anyone.But that's her opinion,-JOHN-I'm sure I don't know you guys know probably a lot more than I do about it,so that's about all I can say. STUDT-Getting back to this chicken remark,did you ever tell Helen that the guy you worked with made that statement to you? John-We might have ,oh ya I think so.-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 2, 2011 0:09:24 GMT -5
Studt-Interview-with John-those kind of things, you know. I never thought about it. Anything's possible. STUDT- Here's what I"m getting at, she thinks you're a real intelligent guy and she's writing a book about this particular case. She's asking your opinion about a lot of different things. I'm wondering,..a lot of things she might be attributing to you. maybe they were your opinions when you were just discussing them or because she thinks you're so smart. She just figures you studied all of these cases. I don't know. JOHN- A lot of her questions I didn't even answer because I just didn't think about them, but I'm giving her an objective point of view from the way I see it, and you know, there's a cause and effect kind of thing, nothing personal. She's really unperson-able and hypothesis is what it is. You be you can take it this way or that.Who knows. Why she thinks it this, I don't know. They are hypothetical questions, and I really can't remember because I'm bored the whole time she's going through this with me, you know, and I'm having my coffee and cigarettes. You know, that's why I go out with her. I really can't even remember half the questions she asked me, because I don't.. STUDT- Well, things she can remember, probably more than half of them. She tries to remember the answers and that's what I.m curious about. Let me ask you this pointblank ...I don't want to embarrass you or anything, but did you tell her that the...
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 5, 2011 0:29:33 GMT -5
There is quite a lot of Info on this In the FOIA papers- Which is very strange as John keeps saying-That I read him the book-."Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" That I had picked up from the Library-and The fact is-I never saw the book again after I gave it to John to read...He tried to use it to say-that is how he came to draw the maps-because I would read a location to him and then tell him to draw it-The Cops already had the maps before I picked up the book-John went on and on about this to studt during the Interview- Then Studt said-well how did you know the exact spot to draw the bodies as that wasn't in the book ? Well then John didn't want to talk about that book any more-
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 8, 2011 0:13:59 GMT -5
- body of Mark Stebens was found without shoes and the reason there were not shoes was because there was something on the bottom of the shoes and the killer burned them.
No, that's what she told me.
DS Tell me about that conversation.
She told me that one was found without shoes, and obviously that was very important to her and I didn't know the importance of it. I couldn't understand her. She doesn't explain herself.
DS I know that.
And, I was looking at her, you know, and she goes, "Well, he was found with boots on but no shoes." Shes telling me that there had to be something on the shoes where the guy had to go burn the,, or get rid of the, As far as I remember, she says he had to burn 'em so that....but that would really stink up the joint, wherever he did that. I says, well ok. shes writing this in her book. Thats about it, you know.
DS How about a discussion about a pair of handcuffs with rubber inside.
Ya, She told me that there was not marks on the hands or ankles. She asked me how could you tie them up for that long and not have any marks on their ankles or their wrists. I said that maybe he had handcuffs with rubber on them. Then she said "well how do you think he suffocated." I said, I didn't know, it could have put them in a refrigerator, for all I know, or a ......This was all speculation, you know. Shes asking
BLK 01676
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Post by Helen Dagner on Sept 10, 2011 1:58:09 GMT -5
Things I still remember about John...That I thought were very strange...
When he stooped down to tie his daughters shoes,he would go in the same type of trance...that he did when it stared to snow----everything he did always had a symbolic meaning....How scared I was on three occasions,that he was going to kill me---once when I asked him to confess---and I also had the same Inter feelings--after the Birmingham Police were up to alpena....and they left me off....and I walked 3 blocks to were I was staying----and I guess I'll always wonder why John trusted me so much...he just never thought....I would go to the Police----Then their was his banana eating binges....once a month-that lasted for a three or four day period....almost like it was timed to a women' menstrual cycle....and I will remember...what he said after he had read--Wolf In Sheeps Clothing---He talked about what the author said about -Psychic Phil Jordan....who was involved In Operation ESP---the task force had ridicule Jorden,and said his report was not only vague ...but even contradictory and fundamentally useless--yet John said if they paid attention to this report...he would have been arrested back in the seventies....
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